Freemasons

Saying men or women have no right to groups catering only for the sex named is
Sexist?
Well yes, the idea of working men’s clubs implying that women didn’t work, was definitely sexist.

So is setting an age limit for entry, Ageist?

PamQS

I've heard the Masons called 'a conspiracy of mediocracy', and this seems to be the main objection. They promote the interests of fellow/l-masons, eg recommending them for jobs.

What is wrong with recommending a friend or relative for a job? You don’t have to be a Mason to do this, and the person you recommend will not get the job just because a Mason recommended him. What a silly (and typical) assumption. You were misinformed.

GrannyIvy

My father was a mason for many years and my husband has been a mason also for many years. They raise a lot of money for charity and support many. It is not a secretive society and they welcome the ladies in at certain times. My DH has made many friends and in retirement it has given him the opportunity to meet with other professional people and have a purpose. There is no racism all are welcomed.

My father was also a Freemason from the early 1970s, when life was rather different, but I echo all you have said

Very charitable organisation - widows and children of members were very well looked after as well as the wider community.

Mollygo

Saying men or women have no right to groups catering only for the sex named is
Sexist?
Well yes, the idea of working men’s clubs implying that women didn’t work, was definitely sexist.

So is setting an age limit for entry, Ageist?

Yes setting limits where there is no real reason for an age limit is ageist.

I am not stating if it is right or wrong to do so I am just saying what it is.

There is a Masonic Hall that you can visit in Bath. Very interesting and I think I was the only person booked in for the tour that day. despite streets nearby heaving with tourists. I suspect a grgrgrandfather was a mason as we have a photo of my grandfather wearing a cap with a masonic emblem on it.

These days, I believe there is nothing sinister about the Free Masons, but it is hard to tell as they are still forbidden to tell the uninitiated what they actually do in their Lodges.

There may never have been anything sininster in the creepy sense, but there again, there could well have been when they started. Certainly, they formented political unrest in the years up to the start of the French Revolution in Paris, and the Empress Maria Theresia of Austria wasn't exactly delighted by them either, although her menfolk belonged to the organization, before the Church forbade Catholics to join.

Caleo

There was a piece in the Guardian about loneliness among middle -aged men . Maybe Freemason meetings are a way to help middle aged men to feel they belong.

Sorry, but that is absolute rubbish! I have known many Masons and I can assure you that is not the case! (Well, I suppose it might apply in one or two cases, like anywhere else, but is certainly not the norm). Most Masons I have met are married, widowed or divorced, and some, obviously will be homosexual, just a normal mix of people really, and I have never met anyone who has become a Mason because they ‘want to belong’.
The masons I have met (there have been many), come from all walks of life. In my late husband’s Lodge, there were shop workers, doctors, dentists, vets, business owners and many more. I think money played a part in the type of people who become Masons. Because they raise so much for charity, it’s
not cheap to join, or to attend the meetings because they need to get their charity money from somewhere.

Crossstitchfan

PamQS

I've heard the Masons called 'a conspiracy of mediocracy', and this seems to be the main objection. They promote the interests of fellow/l-masons, eg recommending them for jobs.

What is wrong with recommending a friend or relative for a job? You don’t have to be a Mason to do this, and the person you recommend will not get the job just because a Mason recommended him. What a silly (and typical) assumption. You were misinformed.

Well it depends how and at which level! When it is at Governement level, local or otherwise, and when it is not declared to others in the process, and people are chosen or appointed not on merit, but on being a Mason- then it can be very dodgy. When people within organisations do not get access to promotion or contracts because they are not members, or refused to join- then it is dodgy. And when there are very dodgy and underhand alliances between professions, not declared, the it is very objectionable, wrong and illegal.

Masonry goes very very deep over many generations and countries in my family. Those who refused to join were seriously hampered in their careers, business or professional. And I can assure you I am very well informed.

Totally different to Rotary or other similar organisations which help support each other more openly, without all the funny handshakes and ceremonies, and also raise huge amounts for charity.

AuntieE

These days, I believe there is nothing sinister about the Free Masons, but it is hard to tell as they are still forbidden to tell the uninitiated what they actually do in their Lodges.

There may never have been anything sininster in the creepy sense, but there again, there could well have been when they started. Certainly, they formented political unrest in the years up to the start of the French Revolution in Paris, and the Empress Maria Theresia of Austria wasn't exactly delighted by them either, although her menfolk belonged to the organization, before the Church forbade Catholics to join.

They are not forbidden to tell the uninitiated the workings of the Lodge, that is just a myth left over from years ago.

Creepy!

GrannyIvy

My father was a mason for many years and my husband has been a mason also for many years. They raise a lot of money for charity and support many. It is not a secretive society and they welcome the ladies in at certain times. My DH has made many friends and in retirement it has given him the opportunity to meet with other professional people and have a purpose. There is no racism all are welcomed.

I agree wholeheartedly, GrannyIvy. This is exactly my opinion of Freemasons, and although my husband died a few years ago, I am still friendly with the wives of Masons I met at Ladies’ nights, although it was a long time ago. Sadly, many are no longer with us.

Yes setting limits where there is no real reason for an age limit is ageist.

Being a woman or a man is a real reason.

Who has the right to decide when you should be allowed to use that reason or when you should not, especially in the current climate.,

My grandfather, Father-in-law and late husband were all Masons, so I guess it’s been part of my life for many years.

I think Freemasons are a bit like little boys and their secret societies with rituals and special ceremonies.

The difficult part is that they have, or had in the past a clear belief in helping each other in business, in getting each other out of trouble, It led to the formation of local cartels and monopolies. However they are also do a lot of good through their charities.

There has in the past been concerns about masonry in the police and other professions, protecting and also excluding non-members from jobs and promotion.

I think now a days they are pretty harmless.

I think of it as a bit anachronistic -

It belongs to the last century.

Whitewavemark2

I think of it as a bit anachronistic -

It belongs to the last century.

British Freemasons raised £51 million for charity last year, I imagine the charities that were in receipt of this money wouldn’t agree with you.

They are one of the first organisations to give to national disaster funds year in year out.

The charity bit is fine.

It is the ceremonies that I find amusing and so old fashioned.

We have a history in our family of membership, DH father was Grandmaster for years, but our generation and subsequent generations find it all a bit weird.

Whitewavemark2

The charity bit is fine.

It is the ceremonies that I find amusing and so old fashioned.

Doesn't old-fashioned also mean traditional?
Is it wrong to be old-fashioned looking at some of today's new-fashioned ideas?

The Freemasons raise money for charity. Their rituals are centuries old - do they harm anyone?

Other new groups suck the savings from susceptible people. Some have links to politicians. Their rituals are questionable.

Whitewavemark2

The charity bit is fine.

It is the ceremonies that I find amusing and so old fashioned.

I agree they sound amusing, and even old fashioned. Anything our ancestors did sounds old fashioned to us and what we enjoy or like to do is referred to as old fashioned by our DGC. It doesn’t matter except when it’s used as an insult.

It’s just like any other group, that has a uniform or a ritual or a special song.
If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go, which makes it a good idea that Freemasons was for men and not ladies on GN.

I went on a trip round a nearby Mason Hall. I thought it was a charity thing. But it isn’t. It’s a place for self development. It was started by stonemasons. It was a way of proving that you were a qualified stonemason. Some do charity work and others don’t. There are women ones.

OP was dead right

I am 70 and remember from what my father said years ago just how powerful the Masons were.

Talk about Nepotism, Mateship and Jobs for the boys

You had to join them to even get a sniff at some jobs and professions.
They could really rule the roost. The Police Force had a big msson enclave at one time.

Although they are still going. I would imagine that they do not have as much power now.

Due to New Technolgies, Massive changes in Working patterns, and practices Emplyment Legilation.

Yes, Monty Python dud send them up something rottelnb and there were Lady Masibd

🦵👔👑💰

kircubbin2000

Reading about the Orange parades someone mentioned similarity to masons. I've often wondered what they do and if they are a dodgy organisation. If not what is the secrecy about them?
My neighbours husband is a mason and she says the good thing about it is that she always knows where he is when he goes out.

"Dodgy". Anything that people do not understand maybe. About 4 years ago, along with other volunteers on our day out, we attended our local Freemasons Lodge. What a stunning place, the Worshipful Master showed us round, explained some things, and basically they are a meeting place, and are involved in much charity work, raising money for the hydrotherapy pool at the local school, working with the homeless, and more. I've just checked their face book page, and there was an interesting story , and pictures, of the joining of the Ladies Lodge, which also seems well represented. All can join either the mens or ladies lodges, the only criteria, you must believe in a supreme being, and no one is
excluded because of their religion, although that did happen for a short while when Jewish men , in Germany, were excluded. Because it's a secretive society, it's easily made a target of conspiracy theories. As well, anyone can visit, on appointment, and they serve a wonderful Sunday lunch public welcome. Of course you have to book.

Allira

Whitewavemark2

The charity bit is fine.

It is the ceremonies that I find amusing and so old fashioned.

Doesn't old-fashioned also mean traditional?
Is it wrong to be old-fashioned looking at some of today's new-fashioned ideas?

The Freemasons raise money for charity. Their rituals are centuries old - do they harm anyone?

Other new groups suck the savings from susceptible people. Some have links to politicians. Their rituals are questionable.

Well said. Part of their culture. A good thing yes.

A very good friend of ours is a mason and was quite high up in his lodge . We’ve been to a number of ladies nights . They raise a lot of money for charity and look after members who are ill and the widows of members . There’s a masons care home near us , which is lovely with amazing staff. An elderly neighbour of ours was there .
Our friend says its members are decreasing and that younger men don’t join due to family commitments.