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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

The wrong kind of refugee?

In recent years, the world has witnessed a refugee crisis that has forced more than a million men, women and children to flee the brutal violence in their own countries. Yet despite the life-threatening situations they face, these refugees (including children) have often been met with a degree of suspicion and fear in the nations they have escaped to.

Author Barbara Fox, whose own mother was evacuated from inner-city Newcastle as a child, wonders what the difference between Britain's long-ago children and today's refugees is?

Barbara Fox

The wrong kind of refugee?

Posted on: Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

(999 comments )

Lead photo

Are today's refugees really any different?

When I read a headline recently about the outrage of a 'picturesque' village to which 70 'child migrants' were to be sent, I was reminded of another time in our history when places in the countryside were obliged to welcome strangers into their midst.

Back in 1940 when she was six years old, my mother, Gwenda, and her older brother, Doug, were among the hundreds of thousands of children who left their inner-city homes and were evacuated to the countryside to escape the German bombs.

Gwenda's main memory of her journey from Newcastle to the Lake District centres round the banana she was given to eat by her mother – the last she was to see for several years. A teacher ordered the children to sit on their bags, and consequently, when Gwenda came to unpack later, she found squashed banana over all her belongings.

On arrival in the pretty village of Bampton they were lined up in the church hall while the villagers came to choose who they wanted. Yes, it does seem unbelievable that that was how the evacuees were billeted to their families! You might imagine that Gwenda and Doug – clean, nicely dressed children - would have been snapped up first (they would surely be the refugees that no one would protest about today!). But actually, that was not the case. Gwenda was the youngest child there as she was tagging along with Doug and his class of nine-year-olds - their mother had insisted that the pair should not be separated. Consequently, the locals were expecting older children, and someone of Gwenda's size probably didn't look very useful in this farming community.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today?


Gwenda and Doug were the only children left when the wife of the village headmaster arrived. As the mother of two sons, she had to be persuaded to take a girl. However, she relented, and so the children went home with her. They would spend three happy years living in the schoolhouse and Gwenda would keep in touch with the couple she called 'Aunty' and 'Uncle' for the rest of their lives.

The following year, in more desperate circumstances, Bampton opened its doors to another influx of children, this time from the shipbuilding town of Barrow-in-Furness.

Undoubtedly thousands of lives were saved by this evacuation of the nation's children, and indeed, Gwenda and Doug's own street in Newcastle was bombed.

Britain also welcomed refugees from Europe, including thousands of Jewish children who might otherwise have perished.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today? I would go so far as to say that the inner-city children who turned up in Bampton were often just as alien to their rural hosts as the foreign newcomers seem to be to the 'picturesque' village dwellers. But equally, both could teach something to the other.

Those harking back to 'when Britain was great' perhaps forget that it was also characterised by our opening our doors to those in need.

When the War Is Over by Barbara Fox, the story of Gwenda’s wartime evacuation, is published by Sphere and is available from Amazon.

By Barbara Fox

Twitter: @Gransnet

JessM Tue 31-Jan-17 08:54:57

Has the ring of a conspiracy theory in the making. But somewhat garbled. Can I assist?
Pinko hippy lefties undermining the sovereignty of the nation state and letting foreigners in to dilute our racial purity. Does that about cover it?

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 09:01:09

Don't forget the brainwashing by the world ruling elites jess quite important that.

rosesarered Tue 31-Jan-17 09:13:43

ww and JessHow about stating your opinions without going down the route of a page of taunting and sarcasm on this thread ( like the other thread) in a serious way, we are all entitled to challenge views, but how about doing it in a way that is consistent with your own values.It would be more compelling.

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 09:18:33

rose I have already explained that I am generally able to deal with unpleasant name calling, like mentally ill, bully and pathetic , but I will not be taken for a fool the above posts are a reaction to that.

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 10:26:41

Roses said:
ww and Jess How about stating your opinions without going down the route of a page of taunting and sarcasm on this thread ( like the other thread) in a serious way, we are all entitled to challenge views, but how about doing it in a way that is consistent with your own values._It would be more compelling_

It certainly would be, but its so much easier to snipe at the alleged callousness of realists, than actually take the trouble to work out detailed policy they would like to see in place.

It would be very interesting to hear the detail of how they would choose to deal with the migration crisis for example, a ball park figure for how many of those claiming to be refugees they would like to admit annually, where they would be housed (in their home towns), how they would select them, how they would investigate the truth (or not) behind their claims, how they would ensure that adult men (and occasionally women) are not passed into our social care system and schools posing as children, and very worryingly, given access to our young girls as a result, what mechanism should be in place to ensure teachers who suspect a 'child' is older can have this investigated without accusations of 'racism', what should be done when these alleged childrens parents turn out not to be dead after all, should refugees be obliged to return home when hostilities end?

There are so many complex issues involved which they ignore.

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 10:30:56

mair why should we give you the benefit of our wisdom when in return you call us hardcore globalist extremists and then fail to come up with a description of the term when requested.?

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 12:07:50

WW
mair why should we give you the benefit of our wisdom...

You complain that I taunt you then follow with the above pompous attempt at provocation. hmm

This does appear to be your modus operandi, dish out the sarcasm sneering and condescension and then complain when its dealt back.

I would remind you that I have previously given a dictionary
definition of 'globalist' with which I am in agreement. 'Extremist' and 'hardcore' are self explanatory. Taking to the streets for example is pretty 'hardcore'. I don't feel further explanation is necessary.

My personal conclusion regarding your persistent failure to elucidate your own stance, is either because you haven't even developed one, or because you fear it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but that is just a personal view, and other readers will draw their own conclusions.

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 12:35:05

OK that's fine let's go with anas working definition.

"Anyone with a curiosity to learn about the world is a globalist.
Globalists have an innate curiosity and therefore the ability to keep an open mind .....any changes they want to be fair and equitable for all humankind"

So add hardcore and extreme to that definition and I'm quite happy with your explanation. And quite happy to be called a hardcore globalist extremist I expect that there are a lot of people on here who would be happy to be called the same. I can't understand your reluctance to give a definition seeing as it was so benign. It was like drawing blood!
Now with regard to your insistence that I toddle through my beliefs with regard to immigration and the refugee crises. That will be coming along after lunch, which I am now off to prepare.

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 12:38:42

mair before I do would it be helpful if I gave you a definition of hardcore globalist extremists that I found on the internet? Perhaps then you will understand my alarm?

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 12:55:24

I am far more interested in your vision for dealing with the Migration crisis WW.

rosesarered Tue 31-Jan-17 13:02:34

Does anyone have one? There is no coherent strategy for dealing with the migration crisis, it may just as well be admitted, all the EU countries are floored by it.
However, if any poster wants to take a crack at it...

rosesarered Tue 31-Jan-17 13:04:44

WW are you getting a bit obsessed now by that phrase, who cares two hoots about it.

Ana Tue 31-Jan-17 13:06:48

Yes, do stop going on about it!

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 13:43:02

I have rose and ana look at the above definition we are all happy about it now. I only offered mair a definition so that mair could understand my concern. I also like you don't give two hoots but with someone who has such a clear agenda regarding immigration and refugees it is important to understand in my view their fundamental beliefs, in order to get a better understanding of her arguments, and how and why they are formed.

No of course no one has a coherent strategy rose you know that and so do most of the posters on here. It simply gives mair another platform if I outline what I feel about immigration and the refugee crises to continue with her agenda. I have therefore decided against outlining my belief on immigration for two reasons

1 I am very unwilling to give mair a further platform for her agenda

2 I would not want to bore everyone to death, as in order to develop my argument it would involve a large amount of posts.

Of course this decision will bring much scorn down on my head, but I am prepared for this and you will no doubt understand my point.

durhamjen Tue 31-Jan-17 20:19:55

www.24housing.co.uk/news/uk-asylum-accommodation-a-disgrace-shameful/

The wrong kind of accommodation for refugees/ asylum seekers.
We should be more concerned about this, I think.

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 20:41:26

Just watching the past times food programme and they looked at a book published and sold in support of refugees in 1914 - that sounds a good wheeze - a book on Syrian or Middle Eastern food would be good.

durhamjen Tue 31-Jan-17 20:54:29

The good thing is that now more and more people are realising that they can make a stand.
I've just been sent this information about homeless in Manchester.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mancunians-angry-homeless-spikes-responded-12524874

Since then, this has happened.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/homeless-spikes-manchester-city-centre-12528974

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 20:55:24

www.24housing.co.uk/news/uk-asylum-accommodation-a-disgrace-shameful/

"Councils are stepping up to the plate with more than 200 local authorities becoming dispersal areas"

Where would you suggest putting them in your village DJ?
Most councils havent got enough homes for British and EU citizens as well as the many immigrants who may have been here for several years in privately rented accomodation.

Would you be happy if a few were billeted in your house, in a copy of the evacuation program in WW2?

whitewave Tue 31-Jan-17 20:59:42

dj I saw about the spikes on television. Wasn't it a mum with her two children?? Good role model I thought

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 21:22:11

One of the many pities is that Syria was a very well educated country and many of the people in the camps could be contributing to our economy by filling jobs in the NHS, computer programming etc

Are you suggesting we should cherry pick, only taking those on the highly skilled immigrant list and with good English then?

You do realise such people can apply to come here legally anyway dont you?

JessM Tue 31-Jan-17 21:27:15

You ever tried job hunting from a refugee camp Mair? Because I think that Syrian's aren't going to get visas to come here without a job offer.

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 21:33:04

And I think Jess you are somewhat over egging the pudding in your praise of Syrian educational levels, while its pretty decent, it nowhere near Western standards, and still possible, as in so many low to medium income countries, to effectively 'buy' a university place if youre rich.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Syria

Colleges charge modest fees ($10–20 a year) if the student achieves the sufficient marks in his Baccalaureate exams. If not, the student may opt to pay higher fees ($1500–3000) to enroll. There are some private schools and colleges but their fees are much higher
Domestic policies emphasize engineering and medicine in Syria’s universities, with less emphasis on the arts, law, and business.

Don't know about you but I'd prefer not to be operated on by a doctor who did poorly in his Bac but whose family was able to pay for him to go to university. How about you?

Mair Tue 31-Jan-17 21:34:58

So are you suggesting cherry picking 'only the best' refugees from the camps Jess?

Checking their credentials might be tricky.

Penstemmon Tue 31-Jan-17 21:53:37

I am not sure how many Syrians anyone actually knows but as it happens I know quite a few. Some live here in the UK and othes are in other countries. Most I know are university educated having gained places at pretigious US or UK /European universities for post grad studies or are running successful businesses. Some I like very much, others less so. They are individul people not a homogenous mass. A bit like on here.

Penstemmon Tue 31-Jan-17 21:59:18

I know he was Egyptianbut to most
Britain First types it probably doesn't make a difference he's still foreign:

The son of a surgeon of a Coptic Christian family, Yacoub was born on 16 November 1935 in Belbis, Ashraqya, Egypt. He studied at Cairo University and qualified as a doctor in 1957. He reportedly said he decided to specialise in heart surgery after an aunt died of heart disease in her early 20s.

Dr Magdi Yacoub was one of the most successful cardio thoracic surgeopns.

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