The "Why did nobody tell me?" parenting book ad

It amuses me, in a slightly baffled way, how people seem to have leapt on a bandwagon of disapproval with regard to JP when most of them haven't read his book or listened to his podcasts. Intelligent people too.

People are weird.

janea, JP has not refused to use the preferred pronouns of any affected person who asks him. He said he would out of courtesy. What he has refused to do is obey authoritarian laws that he believes government (any government) has no right to make.

Government telling people what words they are allowed to use is the stuff of nightmares. Don't people see that?

I think JP's room tidying rule is metaphorical, not literal.

On the other hand, who could deny that it’s important to keep your room tidy. I’m with JP on that one!

I don’t for a moment expect Jordan Peterson approves of terrible acts against innocent people such as the Christchurch shooting. His message that males are being victimised by a feminazi culture,however, appeals to some psychologically fragile young men. His ‘willy-waving’ language may encourage them to ‘willy-wave’with automatic weapons.

And of course, had t-shirt said ‘I’m an anti-semite’ well, there wouldn’t have been a debate because it wouldn’t have happened.

he may not have had a choice about meeting T-short guy and having his photo taken with him
Of course he had a choice - he has his arm around the shoulder of the t-shirt man too, in a friendly fashion.

He sounds rather like a cult figure, preying on those with anxieties.

MN have completely got the measure of him btw

Baggs if you think that the only issue with him is the pronouns issue then you’ve a lot of catching up to do. I stand by my description of him as an attention seeking man child shouting out wee, poo, bum, willy. I think reading Patience Strong would give you better rules for life and would contain more intellectual rigour and honesty. How anyone could begin to be an apologist for anyone being photographed with that T-shirt wearing grinning racist is beyond me

Not to mention all the other things on the t-shirt.

Well, whatever his motivation for allowing himself to be photographed with t/shirt man, and whether it was an act of commission or omission, I think it may well have lost him followers.

People who may have been prepared to consider his arguments and suggestions may now judge him on the basis of his own judgement, or lack of it.

I wonder what the university of Toronto makes of it. They didn’t like it when he refused to use the preferred pronoun for transgender people. Behaving in a way which could be interpreted as condoning Islamophobia is in a different league.

I understand your argument, janea, and think it reasonable. However, just as retweets are not automatically endorsements of whatever is being retweeted, I think there is a strong case to be made that allowing someone who is wearing an objectionable T-shirt to be photographed with one in the same way as have all the other meeters and greeters, is not an automatic endorsement of what's written on their clothing.

I expect that Peterson will indeed have had a contract requiring him to do certain things.

But contracts are only valid and can only be upheld in a court of law if they are reasonable.

I’m sure that if Peterson had refused to be photographed with t/shirt man because he didn’t want to appear to endorse Islamophobia, and been sued for breach of contract, he could have found a competent lawyer to defend him.

One who was able to argue that it is unreasonable to expect a public figure to pose for a photograph with someone wearing a t-shirt, the wearing of which probably constitutes a hate crime.

Perhaps he’s wishing he had got his lawyer to look over the contract before he signed it, to make sure there was a clause requiring all guests to be appropriately dressed.

Thanks, janea. OK that T-shirt's about as bad as it could be.

I think I said JP may not have had a choice about being met and greeted by T-shirt man. Without seeing any contract he might have signed, etc, etc, we aren't in a position to judge.

Think I'll go and check out JP's Twitter feed and see if he had anything to say about it.

Here’s a high resolution image, since you ask. I’m not sure it’s within GN guidelines to post it, but I think it’s time we woke up to what is actually going on in the world and the depths of hatred that some people are capable of.

he may not have had a choice about meeting T-short guy and having his photo taken with him. The event organisers are at least as guilty by association, don't you think, for letting the "proud IslamAphobe" in? Or maybe they would claim to be upholding free expression
Baggs I agree that the event organisers are culpable. I would like to think that anyone wearing that t-shirt would have been excluded from any public event in this country.

I disagree that Peterson had no choice.
It might have been difficult, or embarrassing, to make the right choice, but he made the wrong one.

The event looks hellish boring! I hope they paid him well.

It seems that the photograph janea posted is just one of many from an OMG VIP Meet and Greet occasion that JP was at, presumably by invitation, in Perth, Australia in February. He "associated" with dozens of other people at the same event if all these many other pictures mean anything. Admittedly, most people don't have bigotry printed (and misspelled) on their clothes, but he may not have had a choice about meeting T-short guy and having his photo taken with him. The event organisers are at least as guilty by association, don't you think, for letting the "proud IslamAphobe" in? Or maybe they would claim to be upholding free expression.

JP only became famous relatively recently because he refused to obey a law made by the Canadian government telling people what pronouns they must use. This has often been misconstrued as him refusing to call individuals by the pronouns they personally ask him to call them, which he has not done. He is quite right to say that government has no right to tell people what words they must use.

This is my argument against the "man child" smear. JP looks old enough to retire if he wanted to. He led a quiet life being grown up till that bad law was made.

I did find a definition of "guilt by association" in Wiki: An association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another. Two types of association fallacies are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association.

I think Jeremy Corbyn has suffered accusations of guilt by association a few times recently, and been defended from it.

I haven't been able to find a bigger picture so that I can read the T-shirt. I'd be grateful for a pointer if anyone can.

Also what was the occasion? What is OMG on the backdrop?

It’s not just about what he writes in his books but what he does and says - like posing for this photograph. I really can’t be doing with ‘man children’ like this

Could those people who have mentioned JP's controversialness give a few examples of it, please? I haven't finished his book yet–I'm still on Rule 5–but I have yet to come across anything that I find particularly controversial.

I knew JP's book had been withdrawn from an NZ bookshop. I didn't know why. This nine minute clip by Sma Harris on the accusations that he and Peterson are Islamophobic is worth a listen, I think. It was one of the things that came up when I googled "Jordan Peterson Christchurch".

I think a lot of people mistakenly confuse criticism of Islam with bigotry towards Muslims.

That said, I don't know what the rest of that T-shirt says, or what that juxtaposition of Peterson and the T-shirt wearer was about.

Not poor judgement at all - deliberate goadiness to get attention and damn any damage he does

Just seen that photo! Yikes. Pretty poor judgement JP. Certainly won't be rushing to get that book.
Too late for me anyway. Children grown up and living their own lives including doing things I don't like but can do nothing about.