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Care & carers

Carer and records

(34 Posts)
Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 12:07:06

Please can anybody help me......does a private carer have a duty to provide written records and can these be kept away from the residence of the person they are caring for?


MissAdventure Tue 20-Aug-19 12:17:27

Do you mean a paid carer, because I'm sure the answer would be that they need to show written records of the support they provide.

They should be stored securely at the persons home.

I can't think of any exceptions, unless another healthcare professional requested access to certain parts of the records.

gillybob Tue 20-Aug-19 12:22:32

My late grandma used to be asked to sign her records every day . Mind you she would sign anything , she never read them and they were like a work of complete fiction ! The file was kept in her sideboard and we used to have a great laugh together when I read the notes out to her [ grin]

Septimia Tue 20-Aug-19 13:11:42

My FiL paid for his care. The records weren't always very good and often showed that the carers had left early. But he never looked at them (I did!!) even though they just sat on the kitchen bench. Although the carers were paid for privately, they worked for a company, so records had to be kept.

Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 13:19:43

I mean a paid care, a private arrangement. There are no records in my Mother's hom and the carer says she keeps them but they are at her own home.

I am in the middle of a complete nightmare tbh.

kittylester Tue 20-Aug-19 13:30:09

I should have thought they should be kept with the person who is being cared for in case anything happens and they need to be accessed for information.

There is also the problem of confidentiality unless they are carried securely.

Carers must all work to the same rules unless it is a very informal arrangement, whether paid for privately or by the local authority.

Do you feel able to share more?

annsixty Tue 20-Aug-19 13:30:56

If the carer couldnt come or carry on I would have thought any records should be available in the caree's home for reference.
Of course a private arrangement is just that.
An arrangement between 2 individuals.
It should really be on a professional footing to safeguard everyone.

Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 13:32:32

It's a mess. I have a huge headache.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 20-Aug-19 13:46:01


The records MUST be kept at the patients residence.

That is a fight worth fighting for your mums security.

I read mums written file, the carers know that I do and I constantly check what is being done and written. In fact I have a plan posted on the kitchen cupboard that I expect them to follow, although flexibility is allowed if the circumstances demand it. The company providing the carers weren’t keen, saying that they found me frightening, but MUM is paying the bill, she is entitled to call the shots.
Mum has someone coming in 3 times a day. It is those folk who have no one to mind their corner I feel sorry for. Most carers are OK, but there is the odd one who is either dim or lazy, (one served up cold boiled potatoes as I hadn’t left instructions to warm them and serve with a salad in the fridge) by having the plan on the kitchen cupboard there is no excuse. Before I devised that, some were arriving and leaving within a few minutes, as Mum assured them that she needed nothing doing and they would take her at her word.

I know that carers are under pressure, but I’m not interested in that I am only interested in fighting mums corner.

Saying that some carers are exemplary, mum has an Irish lady who is outstandingly kind, gentle and thoughtful.

Nannarose Tue 20-Aug-19 13:56:47

Lessismore - I think the key may be in the words you use 'a private arrnagement'.
Someone like a nurse, doctor, physiotherapist etc. who is on a professional register is require to keep records (exactly where is negotiable but away from home they must be locked in a cabinet in a locked office).
Carers, at the moment don't have such professional requirements. Those working for agencies, in care homes etc. are governed by the rules of those places and those who pay them.
A privately paid individual carer should keep proper records and make them available to their client and anyone to whom the client gives permission. That would be good practice, but unless it was part of the terms of contract, or the carer is on one of the professional registers (if for instance they are a registered nurse) I am not sure of the legal situation.
I think this may be another of those 'grey areas'. Was it your mum who appointed the carer?

M0nica Tue 20-Aug-19 14:42:41

Just tell the carer you want the records kept at your mother's home so that they are available to be checked.

You are paying the carer, she does as you say or gets replaced.

MissAdventure Tue 20-Aug-19 14:45:52

The records shouldn't be taken elsewhere, its terrible practice, particularly bearing in mind data protection.

They are legal documents, and evidence in the event of anything untoward happening.

Barmeyoldbat Tue 20-Aug-19 14:46:15

Every visit my daughters carer writes out a short report on duties undertaken and notes any problems. My daughter signs it and keeps a copy, the other goes with the carer.

I think for your own peace of mind and could say safety, it would be to your your advantage to setup such a scheme of keeping a record of day to day events and care.

GillT57 Tue 20-Aug-19 14:51:33

I employed a carer's agency to provide three times a day visit to my Mother and we had a diary arrangement where every visit had notes such as what Mum had to eat, whether she had a shower, was distressed or anything else which was necessary information for the next person coming in, and for me to read as well. They used it to ask me for shopping items and to communicate in general and it was extremely useful. I wouldn't be happy with your carer taking notes about your Mother off the premises, these notes are confidential, if informal, and unless every visit is made by the same person, communication must be difficult. Remember you are the customer here, paying for a service, and must insist, within reason, how you wish the service to be provided. This is a business transaction, however kind the carer, and it is not a favour.

aggie Tue 20-Aug-19 14:52:13

we had carers four times a day for OH , after they had finished one was tidying and the other wrote up notes , which the other had to sign , they were on the unit in his bedroom

midgey Tue 20-Aug-19 15:24:13

Notes filed elsewhere aren’t a great deal of help to anyone except the carer! Does she need to cover herself rather than report on her ‘charge’?

BlueBelle Tue 20-Aug-19 15:40:54

The records are surely to be kept at the persons home to be read by anyone else coming in to help, for instance what if the person was only allowed something once a day it would need to be recorded that he/she had had it If these notes aren’t kept there who knows if they ve been to the toilet, had their tablets, eaten etc etc
If the Carer is refusing to do so, what has she to hide and I d
be very tempted to release her
The carer says they are kept at her own home What good is that?
She doesn’t sound reliable to me

gillybob Tue 20-Aug-19 15:46:48

I agree with what others have said . The notes really should be kept with the client and available for inspection. Sometimes my grandmas carers would write that they had done something that they absolutely hadn’t or they would say “ offered B a sandwich but she refused “ . How can you argue with that ?

MissAdventure Tue 20-Aug-19 15:49:06

My mums carers would write "didn't want any dinner as daughter is going to do it"

GracesGranMK3 Tue 20-Aug-19 16:25:41

You certainly should have a file with notes for each visit. I used to keep post-it notes in my handbag and it was a good way to communicate with the carer. Mum used to send the carer away quite a bit and they would note that too.

If your mother is directly employing the carer it might be a good idea to set up up a file yourself. Mums had a page in the front which identified her and the name she prefered to be called (in case anyone else had to call) and me as the next of kin and care co-ordinator (some call it "main carer"). It also had my daughter's name and phone number.

There was a care plan which identified an overview of her needs including her medication - what and when; there were blank pages which were made up each week so the carer could sign that the medication had been given (made available). Then an AM, lunch-time and PM outline of what needed to be done. There was a completed risk assessment in the file and blank bodies so the carer could note if she spotted any bruising, etc. We also kept a diary of falls as she became more an more prone to them.

To be honest, this is why we used an agency as I would not have known what to do. It also meant we always had cover if someone was on holiday, etc.

Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 16:39:07

Thanks for your replies. This person was employed directly by my mother and was like a Saint arriving on a white charger. We were desperate and there was nobody available.

I am scared now that all is not well. There have never been notes kept for me to see.

Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 16:39:40

The agencies had absolutely nobody available at all. I live 3 hours away.

kittylester Tue 20-Aug-19 17:07:18

I should have thought that, if you got her through an agency, that they would insist on records being kept with the person.

Can you go and stay for few days to get to the bottom of it?

GracesGranMK3 Tue 20-Aug-19 17:11:16

I think we were lucky with the second agency we had.

Could you set up a basic file and ask her to keep it so that you can stay up to date with how you mum is doing? Keeping it at home seems odd as there is nothing for ambulance people or doctors to refer to if there is a problem. Did you approach the local authority when you mum needed help? I would always advise it just to get in the system and talk to people who understand it.

Lessismore Tue 20-Aug-19 17:19:41

I really appreciate your replies. I could not for the life of me, find an agency with anybody available. Very difficult situation