My mum wants to die and it’s all she talks about

Betty65 I’m so sorry about your DM’s situation and your own. Awful as it is, it sounds like she will soon get her wish. From my experience you can try to distract but it’s on her mind so, if you think she would appreciate honesty, all you can really do is let her talk and maybe reassure her that it won’t be long and that everyone will make sure she’s comfortable. Maybe your DM doesn’t have too many other visitors? You might find if you take someone else with you, such as a gc, she will chat with that person. Or is there anyone who could visit her sometimes instead of you to give you a break, however brief? You need to regain some strength for both of you. Try to look after yourself.

Does she have a twiddlemuff? One of those gave comfort to someone I knew who was suffering from vascular dementia. I found someone on ebay who makes them.

Sorry crossed posts.

Betty65 I’m sorry.

I had a dear Aunt that died yesterday age 93, her family were with her and allowed her the dignity to make choices to the end and die peacefully at home.

However I have a good friend who’s mother also 93 is in a home and saying she wants to die, my friend will not hear of it!
She is demanding blood tests, new meds etc.

I really feel you should listen to your Mum, tell her you respect her wishes and do what you can with DNR’s etc.

Betty65 I am so sorry you are going through such a dreadful time with your Mum.

My mum decided when she had had enough and stopped eating. I was critisized for not trying to persuade her to eat, but it was her decision and I’m glad I didn’t intervene.

However I suspect your mum being in a Home precludes her from making any decisions for herself.

?

How very sad and stressful for you, Betty65. How often do you visit? Can you cut visits down, or take someone with you?

My poor mother had Alzheimer’s from her very early 80s, was in her care home from 89 until she died at 97, and for the first few of those years visiting could be extremely stressful, because it was an endless repetition of, ‘Get me out of here!’

It was always much easier if e.g dh came with me, though that wasn’t very often. I should add that the care home was excellent, the staff were lovely, and by the time she went there, she could no longer even make herself a cup of tea and was no longer safe to be left alone at all.

Sometimes I would dread visits so much, I had to psych myself up to go, and would sometimes chicken out altogether, because I just couldn’t face it.
Sadly and ironically it was much easier once she no longer recognised me (or any of her family) - I was just a ‘nice lady’ who made her cups of tea and brought her chocolate.

Once she was in her early 90s and her dementia was so advanced that she was doubly incontinent and was no longer able to take pleasure in anything, it was agreed with the care home that except in the case of e.g. another broken hip (she’d already survived one at over 90) there should be no hospital - in any case a terrible place for anyone with dementia - and certainly no ‘striving to keep alive’.

I knew my mother’s former self would have been horrified at the pitiful state she was in, and would have been the first to say ‘For heaven’s sake, just let me go.’ By then I honestly think that any ‘striving’ would have verged on cruelty.

If you would wish to, have you you had any sort of similar conversation with the care home staff?

Our CH staff were entirely in agreement with the family’s thinking on this, but in the event the situation never arose - after 8 years in the CH, she went suddenly downhill and died within 36 hours. By then I had honestly begun to think she’d see me out - I was 67 - and I’m sure the CH staff had begun to think she’d go on for ever.

I don’t mind admitting that although part of me was sad, the main sentiment of me and my siblings was to be relieved that she was released from that pitiful, undignified life at last.

Betty65 I'm so sorry that you are going through this with your mum. I can relate somewhat. My own DM passed away last week, yesterday would have been her 101st birthday. For almost four years she has been in a nursing home and for the past few months, she has been saying she was ready to go. In recent weeks that conversation had increased. It was difficult to respond to at the time but in hindsight, I wish I'd been a better listener. I realize now that that was what she needed, to be heard and maybe to be reassured, as you say you've done with your mum. I'm not sure I did that and the guilt is heavy along with the pain of missing her.

You have a heavy burden on you, being the one close by and the only one allowed to visit during restrictions. You're bound to be feeling stressed. As usual, the grans on here have a lot of good advice. Take care of yourself. for you and your mum

I'm sorry you had a panic attack Betty65, I started having them when my husband died. I take Bach's Rescue Remedy spray and it works for me, they also do pastilles. I count through them now to try and get my breathing back to normal. Scary aren't they, big hugs.

My husband's grandmother was 89 when she started saying she wanted to die as 'everything hurt', it is understandable. I am sorry your Mum might also have bowel cancer, let us know how she gets on.

Can you think of anything that would distract your Mum from focussing on death, something she would look forward to doing/seeing? You could just bring in when you visit so it's like a 'treat'?

My friend has just gone into a home, I used to lend her my DVD's. She was really enjoying my 'Coast' collection before she left. Her daughter popped in today and returned them, it seems there's not a DVD player in her Mum's room, just a tv. I'd want a DVD player if I was there.

Good luck, you are a lovely daughter.

Dear Betty
I read what you are going thròugh and what everyone else has gone through, i have tears in my eyes, i am so sorry you are going through this with your dear mum x

I know some if what you are going through, my mum had vascular dementia, it never changed her personality thank goodness, i can imagine that would be so very heartbreaking to hear. When i was working as a carer, we were faced with many, many situations such as yours, the families would cry out of sheer helplessness to us, we used to hug them and hug their mum/dad.

You most certainly are not alone dear Betty, there is a lot of help out there to ease your worries. Remember, this isn't your lovely mum, it isn't, you know she wouldnt say and do these things, its the demenia.

Hugs to you dear Betty.

My MIL died a couple of years ago at the great age of 101. She lived with us for the last three years of her life and was fortunate to keep all her faculties, just a little problem with her short term memory, until the end. We talked very openly about how she wanted to end her days and she was clear that she didn't want to go into hospital and if her health deteriorated she didn't want to be kept alive with lots on medical intervention. In her last year she started to show signs of heart failure, which was initially controlled but slowly she was finding her life more arduous and decided to stop her medication and moved onto palliative care. All this was discussed with her GP and she had made the necessary declaration. She died peacefully at home with us. I would urge everyone to discuss these things whilst they are still in relatively good health and also to ensure that all the family are aware of what the person wants. I felt we were able to support my lovely MIL to have the death she wanted but unfortunately, she had not discussed it with her daughter, who wanted to try everything to keep her alive. My Dr daughter often has to discuss the imminent death of a patient with relatives and often finds they want to try anything and everything to keep their loved one alive when it is clearly not in the patient's interest. Being ready to die is not always a sign of depression, it can be one of acceptance.

So sorry for both of you. Its very sad. But I understand how your mum feels. Take care of yourself.

This is so sad- but your mum has the right to feel this way. This illustrates so well just how vitally important it is to talk- when all is well, and tell each other how we see the future beyond the limit we set outselves. My mum was always clear she did not want her life to be prolongued in any way once she got past a certain stage. She saw no point in continuing to fight in pain and increasing loss of dignity- once it was clear she would not, and could not get better. I respected this, 100%.

And I have told my OH, and my AC, that I will probably feel just the same, if ever, like her, I lose my legs, my sight, my dignity. I hope I never do- and I am a very positive person and a real fighter- but I am 70. My mum died aged 94, but she truly hated the last 5-8 years of her life. I wish she had been given the gift of an earlier death. One of the reasons I ma choosing to live where I live, is to have that choice, always.

Take care.

Is there anyone you can discuss this with among your friends or family? And explore why you can't accept that this is what she wants- and why you can't bring yourself to 'let her go', in peace.

Shandy57

I'm sorry you had a panic attack Betty65, I started having them when my husband died. I take Bach's Rescue Remedy spray and it works for me, they also do pastilles. I count through them now to try and get my breathing back to normal. Scary aren't they, big hugs.

My husband's grandmother was 89 when she started saying she wanted to die as 'everything hurt', it is understandable. I am sorry your Mum might also have bowel cancer, let us know how she gets on.

Can you think of anything that would distract your Mum from focussing on death, something she would look forward to doing/seeing? You could just bring in when you visit so it's like a 'treat'?

My friend has just gone into a home, I used to lend her my DVD's. She was really enjoying my 'Coast' collection before she left. Her daughter popped in today and returned them, it seems there's not a DVD player in her Mum's room, just a tv. I'd want a DVD player if I was there.

Good luck, you are a lovely daughter.

Your friend can buy a DVD player and take it in for her mum to use, that’s what we did for mum so she can watch dvds of Manchester City matches. DVD players are not expensive and just need a cable to plug into the tv. All care homes will have DVD players to put on film shows so the staff there should know how to work one.

Betty I know what it's like because my late Mum had dementia and I was her only visitor when she went into a nursing home. It was a challenging time and emotionally draining. That was a long time ago and my memory of her now is that of her being a wonderful mother who I miss.
A twiddle muff is worth a try and soothing music too . One day one of Mum's nurses took a kitten into Mum's room and put it on her lap. My Mum instantly relaxed and looked very happy. Nowadays you can buy a toy purring cat or a dog that might be a distraction and a comfort for your Mum. Here's a link to one on Amazon and there are more to choose from.
www.amazon.co.uk/Joy-All-90955-Orange-Tabby/dp/B07GSZ4HSQ/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1USJMKRGLHB9S&keywords=joy+for+all+cat&sprefix=Joy+for+all%2Caps%2C308&tag=gransnetforum-21&qid=1643169301&sr=8-8

Thanks Teacheranne, I'll suggest to her daughter she take her Mum's DVD player in, she had quite a new one. I don't think she'd thought of it, she's anxious about having to sort and sell her Mum's house.

Thank you for sharing FOXIE. Betty I am so sorry for this dreadful situation for your mum and you. I understand some of what your going through. My mum is 90 still in her own home, but showing signs of dementia too.
She is certainly not enjoying life at all, every time I visit 2/3 times a week, it’s the same story of how much she can’t do, how weak she is, asking when she will feel better, how long will it all go on for etc etc.
To say it is draining is a understatement ! I dread going now, and sometimes have to take a kalms tablet before I go. My DH sometimes comes with me but then they’ve never really got on, so she always picks a fight with him. ?‍♀️
I wish there was something I could say to help. The only thing my mum enjoys is looking through family photos on my phone, but then she’ll spend the rest of the visit complaining she doesn’t see enough of everyone.
I’ve spoken to the Dr about anti depressant, but he said they weren’t recommended for the very old.
I hope you both get some peace soon. Take care.

I went with mum to the hospital and was told it’s very likely bowel cancer but without more investigations that they could not be 100%. She is too frail for this. The doctor has indicated that she only has a matter of months left which in a weird way has given me solace that her suffering is nearing an end. My mum did not hear, nor was interested in what the doctor was saying so thankfully she is unaware. Afterwards we went for coffee and cake in Costa and I let her talk about death instead of trying to change the subject. She wants me to make sure that we have a big party when she goes and that everyone has a brandy (her favourite tipple). I’m thinking maybe let her talk about her wishes more - it does make her happy. Such a roller coaster day

Germanshepherdsmum

A doll is a lovely idea. Or one of those pretend puppies/kittens I have read about which seem to breathe and make little sounds?

My mum had vascular dementia. She was more of an animal person so I got her one of the cats that 'breathes'. I also moved its head. The brand was Fur Real Friends.

The cat seemed to comfort and settle her and I thought she seemed to think it was real. However, on one occasion someone commented on it and she said, 'It's not real you know'. I was quite taken aback!

Betty65, thank you for your update, it sounds like you have come to accept your dear Mum's point of view after the hospital visit.
I think you are a loving daughter, and very wise to listen to your Mum's wishes now. Thinking of you both, hoping and praying that you both have peace of mind and some gentle, happy days together in the time that remains.
For you and your dear Mum. Our lovely Mum had dementia too.

Betty She wants me to make sure that we have a big party when she goes and that everyone has a brandy (her favourite tipple). I’m thinking maybe let her talk about her wishes more - it does make her happy
I’m sure that is the right approach.
You might like to listen to this www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06nnqlj
Kath Mannix was a palliative care consultant at Newcastle & in the broadcast she talks about people sometimes needing permission to die. Perhaps that’s what your mum is doing - asking your permission to go.
She’s written books too.
As regards the brandy, that reminded me of my godfather’s funeral, which he had arranged himself. The lesson was the gospel story of Jesus turning water into wine.
The music as we all left the church was the theme from the Last of the Summer Wine.
Then it was a short walk to the village pub where he had arranged for everyone to have lunch.

Good for you Betty, you've got lots to talk about now the party has been discussed. I'm really pleased for you.

You could find out which brandy your Mum wants there - my late husband was a Remy fan - who she'd like to invite, what food to have, etc. You could get some miniature brandies and ask her opinion. let her choose. Let her feel she is organising it.

My friend works at HospiceCareNorthumberland and has to regularly discuss death with her patients, it really helps the families.

In an odd way I'm sure it's a relief to know that the end is in sight Betty. It's what your Mum wants (and I expect many of us in her situation would want), and palliative care can make things much easier for her and for you. Yes, talk about that party if it makes her happy. Tell her it helps to know what she wants, which actually it does, and make sure you have the party in due course difficult though it will be. My very best wishes to you both.

Pleased you’ve had a better day Betty. All the best to you both

Betty I am another who understands from personal experience how difficult this is