Mum won't pay for care.

We’re having a similar issue with an elderly relative. They live alone, have a good income and won’t spend money on carers. Has had two bad falls - broke a hip each time and despite the hospital sending out an OT to assess for adaptations after the first fall, wouldn’t take the advice and the carers supplied on discharge from hospital were sent packing before the point at which financial assessment kicks in. Thus there was a second fall and knock on consequences.

I don’t think there’s much anyone can do unless there’s some sort of mental health problem resulting in diminished capacity. In our case, the relative has since had a seizure and has lost some brain function as a result - the hospital think it’s as a result of an injury during one of the falls that has gone undetected. Hopefully at some point an independent guardian will be appointed for them, as we think it’s gone past the point where a power of attorney could be appointed. That way, the decision can be made to get the care they need.

I feel for you, but I think you have to stand firm and let your mum know that she’s not only responsible for her own care, but she’s better placed than a lot of people to pay for it. Alternatively you could discuss the appointment of a lasting power of attorney to act in the event she can’t do so herself . It’s much easier to do that now because if she loses capacity an LPA can’t be made and the alternative is for the court of protection to appoint a guardian who has to approve every penny spent and to whom the family would have to submit periodic accounts.

We cant make people do 'selfcare

No, but we can make sure that we do not unload everything on us. And I would not worry about explanations about being well off, and making bad decsions in life.

The situation now is that she is on old and infirm woman who needs care that she can well afford to pay for but will not. Do not let her emotionally blackmail you into providing it for free. Perhaps if life gets difficult enough or unpleasant enough she will pay for it, or of her own choice, choose to live in discomfort rather than pay for it. Her choices will be clear and her own.

If things get bad Social Services will get involved and then she will have to pay.

You have my every sympathy. It is very difficult watching someone near to you take a course that makes their life difficult, you want to help them, but if they will not make the decisions that will make their life easier, you just have to stand back and let them get on with it.

Its crazy isn't it Katie. Its their choice to live in such reduced means as if they are poverty stricken. I don't know if saying anything will have an effect, but I may do if pushed hard enough.

I feel like she is grabby. My Mother has inherited well and divorced well, so is wealthy even though she has never had a good job in her life. But she still feels justified in trying to get my money, or trying to prevent me from earning any.

We can't make people do "self care"...

Wether it’s an adult child or a parent you cannot influence what they are determined to do. In the OPs situation all you can say is “I’m broke” you have all the money “spend some on yourself”, it’s hard to do that.

I had a great aunt who lived on her own in a dilapidated cottage that hadn’t had a penny spent on it for 50yrs. At 96 pneumonia was the final straw, the place was squalor, yet the estate totaled over £1m.

BlueBalou Im so sorry to hear that , how devastating and so strange to withhold something that could have been so helpful!

M0nica So sorry! Its good you were able to take a step back and say nothing. Its the only way to be, I feel. As much as anyone wants me to be responsible for them, actually as long as they have mental capacity they are responsible for themselves. They have capacity and that includes the ability to make bad choices.

I wonder, is there a polite way to tell someone you think their choices are terrible? I really don't think she equates choice with consequences or is capable of self reflection to understand that the way she is living now is a direct result of decisions she made and no one else's fault. It's probably best to say ... nothing.

One thing we need to learn in life, especially in relation to our nearest and dearest, is that we cannot run other people's lives and if, as a result, something negative they had been warned about happens, then if you have done your best, you cannot be responsible morally or legally for the result, and to be honest to then indulge in extensive if only's and self-recrimination, is a form of self indulgence.

I have been there. I have watched someone dear to me choose to ignore anyone's advice about their lifestyle and and by the time the inevitable happened, thankfully not fatal, I had long accepted that I had done what I could and could do no more. I did not feel guilty that I could have stopped it, I knew I couldn't. I even held back from saying 'I told you so' after the event andd, believe me, the temptation was strong.

Isn’t it sad OnwardandUpward ?
Since both my parents died I have discovered so many things that warp my perceptions of them, several of which are really shocking like my father withholding inheritances from my grandparents that would have been life changing for me - I was told there wasn’t anything ( he was sole executor)
I think you just have to step back and hope that somehow things work out.
?

Yes. I am letting her make her own decisions and they really are going to have repercussions on her- and me.

I wish she didn't move there. I really do. Now her choices are really going to impact on her because I won't be bullied into giving up my job/marriage/family life here.

She would love to get in between my husband and me, she's done it before- but we redid our vows. My Mother was so unhappy that we overcame our difficulties that she sent me to Coventry and didn't tell me her plans when she moved initially.

If only she had stayed where she was. I didn't ever leave her, she left me.

We have to allow adults to make their own decisions with regard to their life. Even if the decision is not in their best interest. Don't let her bully you into doing anything which is not in your best interest.

Curlywhirly If you think my Mother would do anything I suggested, I would not need to be writing this. Unfortunately she isn't interested in living here, though she used to live just down the road. She decided to up sticks and move for a new start after her divorce. I think her ex is still lurking about these parts and that's putting her off. Ideally she would move close to one of her children and yes, definitely without stairs. I don't think a house move is on the cards at the moment, sadly because she isn't doing the necessary and she has capacity.

Barmeyoldbat I am so sorry for you about the loss of your daughter That is soooo sad. You are totally right though. My Mother has also refused to go to hospital many times and now just refuses to wear the alarm. I don't know what else to do except save myself. I'm so sad for you and I think it's worse because it could have been avoided if she had made better decisions. I suppose you can say, she did it her way. I'm devastated for you to lose a daughter in these circumstances.

I had a daughter who lived several miles away, not hundreds but it took 2 hours of driving to get to her house. She was also a nightmare about her care and I am afraid in the end I did have to leave her to get on with it. But saying that, I did keep in touch with one or two phone calls day to talk over problems she had and give advice on how to solve it, which was not always taken. I did an online shop twice a week with her as she wasn’t very mobile. I was also the point of contact for when she had one of her frequent falls and her alarm went and just gave permission for an ambulance to be called but she would never go into hospital for checkout. I am afraid she died last week from sepsis but everything that happened was her choice, even going against doctors orders and advice. If someone is stubborn then I am afraid there is nothing on earth you can do, all the meetings etc in my my mind mean nothing. They will do as they want. Please don’t feel guilty just give her phone support and I am afraid be tough for your own mental well being.

Could you not persuade your Mum to move nearer to you (preferably in a bungalow or flat so she doesn't have to contend with stairs)?

Thanks so much Farzanah. I know she won't change, but I'd have thought her near death experience would have. To anyone else that would have been a life changer, but no- not her. Still doing stupid and unnecessary things and lying to try and stop people finding out!!! (It's not working!)

I'm sorry you felt frustrated and stressed by trying to put things in place for your Mother which she resisted. I'm not surprised that the worry and stress affected your health !

Like you, I am starting to realise I cannot change things. I am struggling to accept it. She will do what ever she pleases and won't care how it affects anyone. The thing that makes me angry is that after the divorce she was supposed to have a better life, to live well. She really hasn't managed it. It's all such a waste.

That's really sad. I don't know when we will visit again. It cost a fortune for us to travel there last time and we have other commitments that are much nearer. It must be hard to see your Mum deteriorate, knowing that things could have been different.

I know it’s hard OandU but it’s so important to stand aside and look after yourself.
Your mother is not you and no doubt there are reasons why she behaves in the way she does, perhaps her life experiences, but one thing’s for sure she won’t change now.

I felt frustrated and stressed by trying to put things in place for my mother, which she strongly resisted and the responsibility and worry about her was making me ill.

In the end it was a hard decision but I realised that I could not change things, but accept the situation and look after myself, and my family.

I still of course visit and as she deteriorates aim to see that she is cared for, but social services are aware that I am not responsible for her.

It's struck me, she has a sad life- it could be so good, if she made good choices. It's awful she won't accept help, but she loves money more than she values herself and that's really sad.

Doing self care for myself because I have let myself go with all the stress. Cannot fix this, cannot fix her. Its so sad. Just trying to make sure I don't become like it. Money should make your life better, not detract from it, otherwise what is even the point of having any?

Wow, thanks for so many honest and heart felt suggestions and commiserations. I'm so sorry that it's actually a really common occurrence. I had no idea. Thankfully my Mother in Law was no problem in this department and though she's self funding, her dementia means she knows nothing about care costs that she's paying. So sorry Farzanah!

Jane43 I have spoken to them and they are not able or willing to do anything in the near future. They know I am far away and that we don't have space for her, but they are worried because they DO have big houses and feel she may manipulate them, but they don't want her to live with them. That is a huge burden and families don't always share things well, so sorry.

Love the joke at the funeral Witzend.

It's so strange that someone would struggle to manage, but maintain an appearance of managing when they have the money to buy in help so they could thrive rather than struggle.

Barmeyoldbat that's very much the view, I think. Main problem is I am a few hundred miles away and still working full time... She says a cleaner will bankrupt her. Why then go through all the legal battles to get a wonderful divorce settlement and drag the whole family through it just to "struggle" for money???

Good advice PECS

You have done what you can to help your mum have a safer and more comfortable day to day experience. She has chosen to ignore your thoughtful actions.

If you think she is in any real danger (rapid health deterioration/falls/neglecting her personal care or medication etc) I would write to her GP and/ or local social services and explain what you have done to try to put a care package in place and your mum's response.
If at this stage it is her cussedness then just let her live as she chooses. Does she have friends that she sees regularly? Could they let you know if things get to a point when action does need to happen?

If it was me I would send her a cheery card every so often and also a reminder for her to ask you to arrange any help when she feels she might need it. That way you are keeping in touch & offering support but she might see it as her choice, not yours, when to have a cleaner/ carer etc. Of course , she might not. Hard for you

OnwardandUpward, my lovely MiL used to tell dh and his brothers never to expect anything from that aunt, since she’d find a way to take it with her. She’d never have left it to charity, either, since she never gave a penny to any of them. According to her, anyone who couldn’t provide for themselves was just lazy/feckless/workshy, etc.

She was so unbelievably tight, I used to call her Queen Midas.
At her funeral, dh made a little speech where he added that if she’d known what the funeral was costing, there would have been the most almighty screech of ‘How much??’ - and everybody was in fits - she was so well known for her Scrooge-like tendencies.

SueDonim

Assuming she doesn’t have dementia or any other cognitive issues, I’d leave her to stew in it. It’s her life and her choice.

Exactly this

You are definitely not alone OandU, as one who has a very strong willed mother who has made many bad choices, resulting in her having serious falls, I completely understand.

I also understand the awful guilt involved in standing aside and allowing the risk, because although physically frail, and now wheelchair bound with dementia my mother was assessed by a social worker as having capacity to make her own decisions with regard to care.

I am helpless and have come to accept it, but it has been very difficult.

I should have said that my GP was hers as well as she was living with me for four years so in your case it would be her GP to be contacted.

I really feel for you. You say your siblings aren’t talking to their mother but they have effectively dumped the burden onto you. I suggest you speak with them and tell them you can’t take all the responsibility for the problems your mother is causing and you want them to meet with her and you and spell out the situation with options for the way forward. I was in a situation where I was responsible for my mother from when she was 54 and widowed until she was in her early eighties, I have a brother but it was always left to me to make sure her needs were met and it was a huge burden to bear. When things got overwhelming for me my GP and the practice nurse were very helpful and arranged an assessment for my mother, the person who assessed her was very straight talking and told her that living with me wasn't practical any more and my mother accepted what she had to say much more readily. Please don’t carry on as you are as your own health and relationships will suffer.

You will just have to give her tough love as I did my own mum who did the same, I have daughters to look after me why do I need care. In the end we just stopped doing anything for her and left her to it. We kept in contact, but when it was I need some cleaning doing she was reminded she needed to get care assistance or a cleaner, and so on, in the end she did get sorted but it was hard refusing help. Good luck

You are in a shocking and desperate situation , but have done all you possibly can ! Do not feel guilty. Not sure what you can do other than alert her GP and see if he / she can advise . Only you know your mother and know if her behaviour is ‘ normal’ for her or is dementia rearing it’s ugly head!? Assessment is the only way to find an answer. Dementia does creep up very slowly and manifests in many different forms. You may have to step aside and leave her to it! I know your siblings have done that and I can understand why! Is it possible to arrange a sibling meet up to discuss why is happening - at least then you won’t feel so alone in dealing with this. Good luck.

My father was exactly the same, his mantra being 'we can manage.' They couldn't, but he refused to pay for any help or support because he hated parting with his money and he couldn't see why my mother shouldn't carry on doing everything in the house as she always had.

He didn't have dementia, just a determination to resist change and a refusal to let anyone see into his finances.

He ended up in the care home paying for everything from his savings and the sale of his house, and proud of himself for doing so. Never mind about the strain he put on my mother all her life; it was always 'his' money.

I do sympathise, but there is little you can do as you are not able to overrule your mother, you just have to harden your heart.