So Just Where Has The Money Set Aside For Social Care Gone?

I agree that it's possible to pay for some improvements through selective cuts, savings and more taxation but the shortfalls are so large that only growth could pay for them and I doubt any UK government's ability to bring it about.

It’s not going to be just extra taxation, as we have seen benefits will be restricted, WFA has already been withdrawn for most, there are a lot of other universal benefits that could be withdrawn.
There will also be some extra borrowing and some services will be reduced, there are plenty of ways Reeves can reduce spending as well as increase taxation

It may be the best that can be achieved in the UK is extra taxation.
In which case, so be it. We can't carry on as we've been doing.

The US is different anyway. The mentality of many is based on 'why should I pay for someone else's health or education', whereas here we are more egalitarian. We are used to a welfare state that is based on a cradle to grave ideal. For too long governments have assumed that the public want to pay less at all costs, but I think they were wrong, and that people can understand that if we all pay a bit more it will work out cheaper in the long run, as we'll get more back.

Labour are pinning everything on economic growth to pay for all the things that need funding including social care. I doubt growth is going to happen. In the USA growth has been stimulated by massive government grants at the cost of racking up more debt. It may be the best that can be achieved in the UK is extra taxation.

Of course tax must be mandatory.

Rates could increase for high earners - that was my point.

High earners benefit from society, no reason for the drop to 2%

Current NI: £242 to £967 a week (£1,048 to £4,189 a month = 8%, Over £967 a week (£4,189 a month) = 2% . Two percent is ludicrous.

Governments for decades have instead of spending the money on this country has been sent to other countries. Millions every year money that is needed here for social care,housing , schools, hospitals etc. Stop helping other countries and put the UK needs first . Stop taking in people from other countries with hard luck stories. Look to our own people who live here and work pay taxes and NI who need help I don't just mean people who are born here but people who come here to make their home and work for their families and pay into the country. . They pay into the country but still need help because of low wages. Need healthcare ,housing etc. The need for food banks is rising, affordable housing ,access to healthcare of all sorts and a benefits system where people are treated with respect and not treated like dirt.

My own experience is universal credit and the health part of universal credit people you like a human being and care. People dealing with PIP treat you like dirt and the only people I have found treat you with respect and help you are at the PIP tribunal. But many are put off going that far. But I could only do that because of the Brain Charities support and getting me a solicitor pro bono took over a year to get to tribunal but thankfully I won. But it had taken me 35 years of trying to get disability benefits and I was born disabled.

I am glad to say in my local town there are council flats being built and affordable housing built near by .

Healthcare is a postcode lottery took me a move of over 100 miles to the north west to get the healthcare I needed . Without the care I get know still wouldn't be on treatment which is helping me or know the 2 things I was born with .

If the government gave bursaries like decades ago more people could afford to train as nurses, doctors and other medical professionals we need.

Stop people who work here putting their money into banks like in Jersey and other places where they get away with paying less tax and earn higher interest rates. Make high earners pay more tax and NI and stop MPs voting to give themselves a pay rise every year . Give it to people who need it.

Found out the other week why my local Sainsbury's is trying to get people to use self service check outs as I talked to the store assistant manager. Sainsbury's have cut there staff hours by 200 hours per month so staff are working reduced hours therefore haven't got the staff to man the staffed checkouts.

I know this has gone off subject but all this has been going on for decades . I really hoped having a new government they would help the country ,but like all governments they target the vulnerable and reward the rich.

Gone is the day when before people became MPs they actually did a proper job for a decade or more before becoming a MP . People who not just did office work but worked on the factory floor who could only afford a week's holiday in a caravan a year. Where if they wanted things they had to budget and save for it.

I am not very political but those that need help aren't getting it . Taking the winter fuel payment off people how many people are going to die if we have a bad winter because they can't heat their homes. I remember when they had to have refrigerated lorries at hospitals because so many people died during a very hard winter.

Sorry this is a distorted ramble but it's how my mind works . But hopefully people understand what I am trying to say.

Fartooold

Norah I like your idea but I don’t think the wealthiest will.

Nobody volunteers to pay tax, it has to be mandatory and supervised to stop evasion. Then it needs to be distributed fairly to those that need help or provide services we all use.

What happens in practice is that benefits are often used as political inducements to one group of voter or another, rather that who needs help.

Norah I like your idea but I don’t think the wealthiest will.

maddyone

We already do contribute. We pay income tax, council tax, VAT, road tax, and other taxes. Why is the suggestion being made that we don’t contribute?

I don't see suggestions we don't contribute. I see suggestions that some should contribute more. Why? Because we're benefactors of society.

To my mind taxation must change.

Current NI: £242 to £967 a week (£1,048 to £4,189 a month = 8%, Over £967 a week (£4,189 a month) = 2% Why in the world aren't people on over £967 a week (£4,189 a month) paying a much higher percent, say 12%?

"About 18% of a citizen's income tax goes towards healthcare, which is about 4.5% of the average citizen's income." Why could not high earners pay 12%?

Crossstitchfan

Doodledog

You lost me at ‘bleating’, OP.

Harsh!

But true.

As to 'offensive' language I recall a voter being asked in a street interview on TV whether he would vote for Johnson or Corbyn to which he replied that he preferred a 'lying buffoon' to a 'Marxist' any day.

Cossy

J52

Sometime LA money has to be spent in a particular way, by a specific time or it goes back to central government.
For example there may be money to improve open spaces, so new park benches are bought. Meanwhile the school needs to be painted. The first lot of money can’t be spent on the latter.
A simplified example.

Completely agree.

There are statutory services which MUST be funded and in common with central govt there are “different” pots. Many councils, under all political controls, ie all political spectrums, have seen their budgets slashed but their statutory commitments rising especially in children’ services and elderly care.

Yes, I made that point too, use it or lose it ie pay it back at the end of the financial year.

Doodledog

I agree with both of you. Taxes (not just income tax) have to rise if we are to have better services. Yes, those who only think of themselves will 'bleat', but tough. Better that we are all a little bit worse off in the short term if we are looked after when we need to be.

Yes it will cost us more, either through extra taxes OR a reduction in benefits for those that don’t need them, including WFA.

Prioritizing growth investment will help in the long term but don’t expect results quickly, we have a lot of catching up to do.

Was it a Con Con government before do you think? 🤔

gulligranny

Well of course now that we have a La-La-Labour government, "all things shall be well, all things shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well". So no worries.

Without wishing to be rude, your comment is as unhelpful as it is ridiculous.

There’s nothing “lala” about trying to put right 14 years of fiscal disaster and an inherited mess.

I just wish people would at least give this govt 1 year before dissing and ridiculing all their proposals.

The previous govt wasted £££££m in all kinds of ways and now we al have to pay the price.

Doodledog

You lost me at ‘bleating’, OP.

Harsh!

J52

Sometime LA money has to be spent in a particular way, by a specific time or it goes back to central government.
For example there may be money to improve open spaces, so new park benches are bought. Meanwhile the school needs to be painted. The first lot of money can’t be spent on the latter.
A simplified example.

Completely agree.

There are statutory services which MUST be funded and in common with central govt there are “different” pots. Many councils, under all political controls, ie all political spectrums, have seen their budgets slashed but their statutory commitments rising especially in children’ services and elderly care.

I agree with both of you. Taxes (not just income tax) have to rise if we are to have better services. Yes, those who only think of themselves will 'bleat', but tough. Better that we are all a little bit worse off in the short term if we are looked after when we need to be.

flappergirl
I totally agree. However we must pay more to support vulnerable people. Surely percentage on income would be fair, 1% of income, I would pay £1.90/week from my pension. Also would be quite happy to lose 1% from my 3 disabled children’s (now adults) disability income if it sort this country out.

gulligranny

Well of course now that we have a La-La-Labour government, "all things shall be well, all things shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well". So no worries.

You see, I find this sort of comment so strange given the utterly appalling record of the last government. They had 14 years in power, 5 prime ministers (a record I believe) and innumerable reshuffles.

Fair enough if you don't think Labour can do any better but to imply that the last government was the answer is breathtaking. They left the country with the highest burden of taxes since the war, the highest illegal immigration levels, crumbling social care, the NHS teetering on the brink, a terrifying shortage of doctors, nurses and teachers, prisons overflowing, roads too dangerous to drive on and young professionals without a hope in hell of buying a home. I could go on, but hopefully I've talked some sense into you.

maddyone

We already do contribute. We pay income tax, council tax, VAT, road tax, and other taxes. Why is the suggestion being made that we don’t contribute?

Because as soon as there is even a rumour that the government might possibly think about considering having a discussion about the idea of raising taxes there is an outcry?

I agree that there should be a rethink about the funding of LAs. I don't know what would work better than now, but councils that have higher calls on their purses tend to have less coming in, as they have more houses in low council tax bands, and more people getting free services. Obviously the reverse is also true. Geographical inequality is something that needs to be addressed, IMO.

We already do contribute. We pay income tax, council tax, VAT, road tax, and other taxes. Why is the suggestion being made that we don’t contribute?

Fartooold

Come on Ladies it is our country we all have to contribute so things can improve!

Yes, we do.

But we want our elected representatives to manage their finances and spend our money responsibly on those public services we expect them to provide.

Perhaps Central Government should not interfere in the allocation of Local Council funds.

Fartooold

Come on Ladies it is our country we all have to contribute so things can improve!

Agreed.

Come on Ladies it is our country we all have to contribute so things can improve!