FRIEND OF MINE RECENTLY BEEN TURNED INTO A CARER

Rosie!! - no significance whatsoever to capital letters - that's just how I realised I'd typed it and, as we all know, Gransnet doesnt yet have an editing button.

I mixed carers and attendance allowances mixed up - thanks to all of you for the correction.

Go to the Age UK website - www.ageuk.org.uk/

Loads of info about funding care and lots more.

Also Carers UK - www.carersuk.org/

Bluntly, he will need to tell Social Services that he NEEDS to go back to work, he cannot afford not to, and so from X date he will not be available to act as carer for his parents, who will be ‘vulnerable’ and ‘at risk’ - these are apparently the buzzwords.

It is very common for SS to try to persuade or guilt relatives into providing necessary care - understandably, since it’s cheaper for them.

As for elderly people who refuse carers, since they only want relatives to perform such duties (TBH this is VERY common!) they will have to be told that it’s outside carers, or nothing.

Yes, I know this all sounds harsh, but this sort of situation is all too common.

There is a world of difference between caring for a loved spouse and caring for a parent, and no child should be expected to sacrifice their own life. What you can do for a partner is quite different from what you could do for anyone else, and sometimes saying “no” is the right thing to do.

Thanks all for the helpful thoughts.

I know I'll be interested to start with to see if his startled reaction as to just how much a nearby house is up for rent for when I told him has turned into him investigating just how much he thinks their house could be rented for. It's up for a lot more than he thought it would be - it's hundreds of £s more a month than he thought it would be. So hopefully that's got him thinking down those lines to start with - to see if there are possibilities re paying for carehomes. I don't know what sort of state his parents house is in - though I'm not optimistic on that front from what he's said over time about it (and it may be like a lot I've noticed - ie needing a lot of work and functioning rather illogically) - but I may be wrong and it may be more "together" (ie modern and workable) than I've been assuming it is.

I do know his father is extremely stubborn from what he's said about him over time and we shall see - my friend isn't a "weak" sort of person and I think he should be capable of being "firmer" where necessary (whether with demanding parents or demanding Social Services). I've seen him be quite "firm" about investigating things and making up his own mind about things since first encountering him apres 2020....so we shall see....He's a teacher by training and inclination...but also got DIY type skills.....so maybes.....

So we'll see what happens about that possibility or otherwise. I do know decades ago one of my "cousins" (aka aunt in fact) made a noticeable amount renting out my "aunt" (grandmothers) house and that went a long way towards paying the cost of her carehome (which I saw - and it was a decent one/not cheapest possible for sure). So maybe there's some "room for manoeuvre" factoring these things together.

As Silver lining said he needs to move out. Give social services a date. In the mean time go back to work. Leave the house at 8 am. Ask for cSrers to come in 3 times in his absence 5 days a week. social services need to sort that out with his parents. He may whilst he is there decide to cover at weekends and this will give him the hours he needs to put in to cover his carers allowance for 35 hour work.

Grannynannywanny

Sorry to contradict you ExDancer but carer allowance is paid directly to the carer. What you are describing sounds like attendance allowance and it does sound like the parents are eligible if they’re not already receiving it.

This is correct 👌

I wonder if Health and Social Care have assessed their needs? This is going nowhere until that is done and it gives him the opportunity to express his position also.

Witzend

Bluntly, he will need to tell Social Services that he NEEDS to go back to work, he cannot afford not to, and so from X date he will not be available to act as carer for his parents, who will be ‘vulnerable’ and ‘at risk’ - these are apparently the buzzwords.

It is very common for SS to try to persuade or guilt relatives into providing necessary care - understandably, since it’s cheaper for them.

As for elderly people who refuse carers, since they only want relatives to perform such duties (TBH this is VERY common!) they will have to be told that it’s outside carers, or nothing.

Yes, I know this all sounds harsh, but this sort of situation is all too common.

Sounds very much like the "frame of mind" advocated by my ex Social Services work colleague decades back if it ever came to it (ie she foresaw it as a possibility in my case in years to come) applies.

I can certainly see your thinking on that - ie telling them "Would you like to try living on £83 a week indefinitely? I've got bills to pay on my own house and I have to live one way or another". Yep...liking the idea of presenting them with a sort of checklist in effect of "It costs me £x per month for my own bills and to have a reasonably normal sort of life. The shortfall - if all I get is £83 per week = comes to hundreds of £s a month. Are you going to pay that? Thought not...."

I can understand as well why an elderly person would want a carer to be a relative - but it is rather selfish in a lot of ways....as that takes I don't know how many years out of their "childs" life and it's an indefinite amount. I've not asked my friend how old his parents are - I am guessing at late 70's/early 80's maybe? Well I know I was shocked when I moved here and saw some obituary columns in the local paper and realised many of the people concerned were in their 90's. Early 90's is not uncommon here. Late 70's to early 90's potentially could mean around 15 years!!!!! A long time to lose money and lose one's Life for.

I think I'm going to have to make it plainer to my friend that his mother can't say "Oh I can't be ready to have a carer give me my breakfast at 7 a.m. - I want it later". 7 a.m. isnt a bad sort of time actually to have one's breakfast - even if it would be preferred at 9 a.m. for instance. His parents are going to have to do a bit of "flexing with the wind" imo. I'm the first person to agree "No - of course people can't be expected to be put to bed at 7pm of an evening". But 7 am of a morning for breakfast doesnt - to my mind - fall under the banner of "unreasonable".

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Isn't it Carers Allowance that can be claimed if you provide 35 hours per week of care. Would also agree SS will try to delegate care to anyone other than their own services. If euther if tge couple have no funds to pay for care (be self funding) social services will support financially.

Peaseblossom

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Lasting Power of Attorney. Often discussed in GN.

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

butterandjam

His parents both need to claim disability payments Social Services should be advising on which benefits they are entitled to. For that he needs a journal of their existing care needs ( help feeding, hygeine, toilet , dressing, medication, finance, shopping, housework and laundry, the lot)

If they still have capacity, he needs to arrange LPOA for both asap. That would give him authority to arrange their care.

They each need a care assessment, he does not have to do that, Social services does that, but there is a waiting list
For him to be able to make decisions they both have to not have capacity, he cannot make decision. even with a POA if they have capacity. No one has to care, if he does not want to Social services has a duty to care, so once the care assessment is done they can have carers accordingly if indeed they qualify. They do not pay for a care home unless they have savings over £23,500 each, the house is disregarded whilst one of them live in it. He will only get carers allowance if he cares 35 hours or more. They can however get Attendance Allowance whilst they are self funding. You do not get turned in to being a carer unless you agree, no-one can make you. Of course he is tired it es exhausting being a family carer with disturbed nights and 24/7 care. Yes both his sister and he can claim carers allowance if they earn less than £196 per week (after tax, National Insurance, and allowable expenses) once you earn more your Carer’s Allowance is stopped. If you exceed this limit, even by a small amount, you will lose your entire £83.30 weekly benefit.

REKA

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

if you are over 65 you do not get carers allowance, you are most likely talking about Attendance Allowance, which they get for themself and not for each other.

Peaseblossom

*butterandjam" what is LPOA?

Lasting Power of Attorney

win

REKA

My neighbour's parents got 2 lots of carers allowance payment for caring for the other.

if you are over 65 you do not get carers allowance, you are most likely talking about Attendance Allowance, which they get for themself and not for each other.

Correct. It still really annoys me though that many of us who are retired receive not a single penny for caring 24/7 for a spouse or partner. I know the argument from some will be that we get our state pension instead of carers allowance but we’ve paid for that over our working lives. We are entitled to it. Being a carer is entirely different.

I can hand on heart say that I work harder now than at any time in my life and am on call all day and night.

How about asking for direct payments from social work to employ a carer direct to help his parents, or a carers assessment for him to see what your friends needs or employ someone privately when need might just be a few hours a day when they are needed. Think outside the box around his parents need and your friend.

He just needs to tell his local council that the current situation is not sustainable, the council have an obligation to respond to a request for assessment and if his parents have eligible needs under the Care Act then then to meet assessed needs

Sleepyhead52

I wonder if he is their only 'child' or if he has siblings who could share the responsibilities. It sounds as if they are resisting having help and he, understandably, doesn't want them ti go into care. Social Services will, of course, allow/encourage any family or friends to carry on for as long as they can. The only thing that occurs is that they could each claim carer's allowance for the other, doubling the income, if they aren't doing that already. Sorry not to have more to offer.

I’m a full time carer for my husband (4years) he doesn’t have to do this nor should he be forced into it. It is not his responsibility to look after his parents. Social services should supply care and his parents may need to contribute depending on their savings and income.

I belong to a good support system on social media. Mobilise, it’s for carers and there’s also lots of good information, and some professionals who can point you in the right direction. Very good.
Age concern are a
So very helpful and worth a phone call. Also Independant Age they are both charities.

He needs to keep repeating g to social services, I am not able to look after my parents. If they have money then he should organise care for them.good luck.

Pinkrinse - do you have a link for that Mobilise group please? I tried googling and it didnt come up.

I know myself - quite some time ago and in a very different context I certainly found the benefit myself of a support group for something I was involved with. It helped me emotionally and I managed to get a particular fact I'd noticed about the issue concerned "out there" and widely known. I'd realised what was what about an aspect of it all - and that did it = I told the support network...

They do not have to use carers from an agency with their rigid times they can attend. Your friend needs to list all the care his parents need. Usually this encompasses feeding, washing, dressing, mobility, using the toilet, etc., but it also includes requiring help in terms of maintaining independence, social interaction and protection from vulnerable situations. If both parents need care, they should each have a properly structured care plan. Fight to get the amount he thinks they need to cover all those situations. The Carer's allowance will be for all the other things they won't pay for like cleaning, washing, etc.
Once the care plan is agreed they need to do a financial assessment to see how much the parents will have to contribute towards the care.
If they are entitled to care based on their Financial Assessment ask to receive their funding as a direct payment ensuring they also pay for a company to run payroll, includes holiday pay, holiday cover and any other charges an employer needs to make. That way they can find someone who will come in at a time to suit the parents.

icanhandthemback

They do not have to use carers from an agency with their rigid times they can attend. Your friend needs to list all the care his parents need. Usually this encompasses feeding, washing, dressing, mobility, using the toilet, etc., but it also includes requiring help in terms of maintaining independence, social interaction and protection from vulnerable situations. If both parents need care, they should each have a properly structured care plan. Fight to get the amount he thinks they need to cover all those situations. The Carer's allowance will be for all the other things they won't pay for like cleaning, washing, etc.
Once the care plan is agreed they need to do a financial assessment to see how much the parents will have to contribute towards the care.
If they are entitled to care based on their Financial Assessment ask to receive their funding as a direct payment ensuring they also pay for a company to run payroll, includes holiday pay, holiday cover and any other charges an employer needs to make. That way they can find someone who will come in at a time to suit the parents.

There will be no carers allowance at their ages. There may be AA if they are self funding but if even part funded that goes too.

Sorry, I meant to correct that, Win. You are right, the son gets the Carer's Allowance at the moment and they could apply for Attendance Allowance to pay for additional help.