Lack of Carer's courtesy while in your property

M0nica

butterandjam

* But what really upsets me, and perhaps I am being a little petty about it, that they all seem to want to use the bathroom for themselves before they leave (male & female) without ever having the courtesy to ask if I would mind first. *

They have just used your bathroom in the course of caring for your husband.

Of course , before leaving they must use the bathroom again "for themselves" to wash their hands; essential hygiene. I'd be shocked if they did not.

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But surely they would be wearing disposable gloves.

There should be a written contract specifying exactly what services they will provide and over what period of time. They should not be allowed to use their phones while on your premises unless in an emergency.

If there is not a written contract demand (not ask) demand one and then make sure it is fulfilled to the letter.

Even if you use gloves, you still need to wash your hands afterwards. They do need to write up notes which are always on the phone, other than that they shouldn’t be using them. Depending on the arrangement you have you should be only paying for the time they’re there. There’s probably a minimum time but that depends on your contract.

Why not copy and post your thread to the agency? (Perhaps deleting the bit about them using your bathroom to relieve themselves).
It states your worries clearly without sounding aggressive and should make it clear to the agency just what's worrying you, and you obviously are worried.

regardless of the time they spend what time are they actually booked in for ie half hour or one hour?
is it laid down properly what they are supposed to do?
you should contact the agency it might be worth emailing them detailing what you are not happy with ie the bed making, the amount of time they spend, the using toilet without asking etc.

It is really hard getting used to have carers coming in taking over your home. I had them for 10 years too like a previous poster, but I always insisted on being one half of the double up so they worked to me always. My husband would set the pace and I would give the instructions. I knew my husband better than they did and so do you. Some objected thinking I was not trained, but I was better trained than they were having been trained during 6 months at the hospital my husband was in for longer than I care to remember, to prepare me for having my husband home.
You say it is Marie Curie, which to me sounds like it is end of life free care is that correct? if it is, that is why your timings are different. If you are paying for this and it is just a normal domiciliary agency then you need to speak up. You should have a written care plan, which should have been done when they assessed your husband at home. They should log in and out on their phones and complete the daily care plan on their phones too. This is what they are doing in their cars. If you made/offered them a cuppa and they sat down having one with your and your husband they could do it in the house. You need to make friends with the carers not to resent them, they are caring for your beloved husband which it sounds like you are sadly not able to do yourself. any longer and good on you for realising when it became too much. Easy to get burned out for sure. Could you be part of a double up? If you play this right they will become your friends, I still see one of my favourite carers now privately for a cuppa and lots of them in town. They always stop to speak.
You have written the answer yourself treat them like friends visiting, but remember you are in charge at all times whilst they are there. It is your husband, your home and if you are paying you are definitely calling the tune. Good luck

I have carers private and health board, so long as they do the job the are there for it dosnt matter how long they take obviously they do the job properly in the first place,my husband is happy and comfortable and I am spared extra work.
They may need to go to the toilet at one of the houses they service its natural they are human.
They sit outside to view the next on the rosta and complete the forms plus have a few moments to get their head together for the next house, I couldn't fault them they do a job many couldn't

I agree about workers using the loo, really annoys me as I don't even know if they wash hands afterwards, hopefully carers do! I get really annoyed at having to clean a loo after someone else has used it and left it less than satisfactory. I don't think you're being petty at all.
The most important thing of course is your DH's care and very good advice already on here about contacting the company providing the 'care'. Hope you can get this sorted.

langelei

I didn’t mean they use the bathroom just for handwashing and they wear gloves anyway, but for use of the toilet facilities.

So is your concern that they dont ask first or that they are actually using it? Either way neither impacts the quality of your husbands care. Try to focus on the things that do impact on his care such as 10 minute rather than 30 minute care visits

Hi, using mobile maybe to check what's happened prevoius visits urine, bowels, eating & drinking etc. Tucking in of sheets might be related to type of mattress, if it is a replacement air mattress it's best not to tuck sheets in due to change of I elation in each cell. Even if gloves are worn hands should be washed or gel used on removal, best practice. Have a chat with agency because if paying for half hour that's what you should be getting. Wish you well.

As a fairly recent user of care agencies for my husband - progressive mnd- I feel I understand some of the things u maybe feeling langlei. It is very hard to accept that u cannot do it all yourself -in my case he needs hoisting to be moved now so we have 2 carers - 3 times a day. This has taken a lot of getting used - no choice in which carers we get and minimal choice of times -but also strangers in your home a lot . But they are mostly vg with my husband even if they have little in common with me. They always ask to use the toilet and have a list of tasks to complete and book in and out on their phones. Some are more experienced and it shows in the little things -like putting towels away and asking what needs to go in the washing etc . Some do rush but I realised after a while that sometimes they have been here longer and others shorter than their time for various reasons . It has been hard for me to talk to some of them and explain needs and wants and my husband has learnt to ask or tell too. It can often be difficult to get him comfortable in the wheelchair and let’s not get started on the commode and toileting issues with slings - all of this has to be learnt as u go - I know because I have had to learn too and can do it on my own when I need to. The system is not good - in an ideal world u could have the same carers and times and so on . The bottom line is always money . I feel especially sad for elderly people on their own with no one to advocate for them .

As a past carer I would say you should have probably a half hour slot, They should not leave early as they are paid for care for half an hour Defiantly talk to their office as they don't know until told.

My understanding is that carers are not paid for travel time, only for the time they're designated to be in the house

eddiecat78

You should contact the Agency and ask the carers' manager to deal with it.
If this doesn't help contact a different agency

I totally agree, your DH certainly is not getting the service he needs! There seems to be very little ‘caring’ about the tasks they’re supposed to be doing. Ok, so it might not be the best paid job but if a person doesn’t ‘care’ why take on the role of a carer?!

I had carers for my husband for ten years . We paid an agency so we did have more control. We had some fantastic carers but also experienced bad care particularly with one agency. I resorted to complaining to the Quality Care Council . It didn’t help our situation as by the time they got to doing anything we had changed agencies. However it didn’t help stop an awful agency operating.

Basgetti

langelei

I didn’t mean they use the bathroom just for handwashing and they wear gloves anyway, but for use of the toilet facilities.

Where else are they to go?

When guests/workers/ family use our bathrooms I don't need anybody to explain exactly what they're doing in there.

Are you paying directly?
If so I'd probably look for a different agency.

We had two agencies and then hired privately for my mother-in-law.
One was good staff but timing unreliable.
One had much less experienced staff but timing was good (!)
The third was excellent (staff
chosen by us) - but it was super important - as they were living-in.

I'd say try another agency if they don't improve after speaking to the manager.

I too would expect all of them to be able to use our loo.

Forget using the loo. That just makes you sound ridiculous.
But you do need to demand more.
Are you paying for this care.
Whether or not contact the agency and emphasise that your husband is vulnerable with complex needs.
That you need experienced and capable conscientious careworkers.
Remember that this is a job that anyone can walk into off the street.
Many of them don't care about the work at all. Minimum wage. Stop gap. Or need a visa. Or job centre pressure...
Re the loo. Avoid that.
I knew of someone who texted overnight careworker about use of toilet roll. There were 3 workers in that time but the daughter complained the toilet roll was half finished next day...

I wouldn't mind if a carer had to use my toilet, but I would be asking the agency what exactly the carers duties were, and how much time they were supposed to be in my home.If they were only given say 15 minutes to tend to your husband, then you need to know, and perhaps their next appointment might not be for another hour, and so they can sit in their car till it's time to go, I used to be a home carer and that's how it worked then.

My DH had carers for 6 weeks after coming out of hospital.
They were excellent. They stayed at least 30 minutes and cleared up after themselves.
They also asked to use the facilities.

These were employed by our council and are better paid and well vetted but not all carers are the same. I would look around and ask around which are the best agencies in your area.

langelei

I didn’t mean they use the bathroom just for handwashing and they wear gloves anyway, but for use of the toilet facilities.

Where else are they to go?

I didn’t mean they use the bathroom just for handwashing and they wear gloves anyway, but for use of the toilet facilities.

1. Check exactly what the Care contract for your husband includes. Note what is and is not happening specifically for each agreed action in the contract
2. Contact the agency and specifically state the facts about which actions are not being completed to support your husbands care
- stick to specific facts against specific contractual actions regarding your husbands care rather than "they use my bathroom"! Make sure it is things that directly impact on his care and comfort ( eg does the bedding not fully tucked in impact his comfort? Or is that you irritated as not meeting your standards? )
4. If you speak on the phone follow up with an email to ensure a written record. Consider making contact by email rather than phoning as this makes it easier to be very clear about what your specufic concerns are related to contracted actions not being completed.
5. Wait 2-3 days and if no reply, follow up requesting a reply as a matter of urgency. Or ring agency with your email in front of you, say you have not heard; repeat each concern as per your email. Maybe ask for a manager to visit to discuss
6. Consider an alternative agency; start researching options
7. If you are funding the care you can just choose to change agencies. If external funding you need to discuss with that agency stating your reasons, the same as the reasons you have given the agency

Good luck; this must be very hard for you 💐

NICE states that home care agencies should ensure visits last at least 30 minutes.
Shorter visits (such as 15-minute calls) are heavily discouraged and should only occur in exceptional circumstances. Exceptions where shorter visits are permitted include:
Specific tasks: Short check-ins to ensure a service user has taken medication.
Safety checks: Quick visits to ensure an individual is safe and well.
Prior agreement: When the person receiving care (and their family) has.

If your agency is cutting visits short without your prior agreement and you are not receiving the care stipulated in your care plan, you should report this to your local care manager or the Care Quality Commission (CQC).

butterandjam

* But what really upsets me, and perhaps I am being a little petty about it, that they all seem to want to use the bathroom for themselves before they leave (male & female) without ever having the courtesy to ask if I would mind first. *

They have just used your bathroom in the course of caring for your husband.

Of course , before leaving they must use the bathroom again "for themselves" to wash their hands; essential hygiene. I'd be shocked if they did not.

.

But surely they would be wearing disposable gloves.

There should be a written contract specifying exactly what services they will provide and over what period of time. They should not be allowed to use their phones while on your premises unless in an emergency.

If there is not a written contract demand (not ask) demand one and then make sure it is fulfilled to the letter.

I agree with butterandjam about using the bathroom.

Is it possible they have to complete records of their visit on their phones? And look to see where their next visit will be?

Just some possible explanations of what you are seeing, but to be sure, contact the agency to find out exactly what you can expect.

* But what really upsets me, and perhaps I am being a little petty about it, that they all seem to want to use the bathroom for themselves before they leave (male & female) without ever having the courtesy to ask if I would mind first. *

They have just used your bathroom in the course of caring for your husband.

Of course , before leaving they must use the bathroom again "for themselves" to wash their hands; essential hygiene. I'd be shocked if they did not.

.