The Apostrophe '

There aren't many young people on here though, are there, dorsetpennt At the risk of being a pedant myself it's GRAMMAR not 'grammer'!

I also notice that my own grammar wasn't too good there, either !

I'm sorry to upset you dorsetpennt but the rules have changed. Seriously, in schools now there is only one apostrophe and it's in between the last letter and the S.
For example, for my 40th birthday my daughter made a banner saying Heather's 40th ... I went mad ... she didn't know why ... so I calmed down again because it's true, it IS how they're taught these days.
Shocking and criminal if you ask me.

I think most of us were taught to use apostrophies properly as many of us would have studied 'o' level English Language as well as English Literature.
Spelling was also extremely important when I was at school and we were marked down in exams for poor spelling.
Any spelling mistakes I make on the computer are typing errors rather than not knowing how to spell a word.
We are also probably far better at mental arithmetic than the young generation.

At least we haven't started posting in 'text speak' as many young ones do on FB.!!

I've already posted on this in pedants' corner; as an ex English teacher the misuse of the apostrophe really irks. I once read an article advocating the complete abolition of the apostrophe, and it made a lot of sense. Actually, the possessive apostrophe was, originally, an apostrophe of omission too, dating from the days of possessive case endings having letters omitted. Oh, for heaven's sake, I'm back on my soap box.

Xx

I always liked English at school and I believe that my spelling and general grammar is good but I've always had problems with the apostrophe. I understand that it's there when you leave a letter (or few letters) out, ie: can't, won't, it's and so on, but I struggle with it when it's used as dorsetpennt gives examples such as my sister's watch etc.
Could someone explain, in simple terms, the rules for using the apostrophe in this sense?

Ariadne, I share your soapbox and for the same reasons - retired English teacher. I don't even remember when I learnt about the correct use of apostrophes, but I don't think I ever found it difficult - just a question of following the rules. When I despaired of my students' ever getting it right, I used to say, 'If in doubt, leave it out' because I'd rather see no apostrophe than see it in the wrong place. I know that my senior GD's primary school taught the correct use, because they featured in a BBC programme about punctuation and this is one of the things she gets right.

I too have trouble. I think I'm OK re: possessives and omissions, but don't quite get when to use 'its'

That's the easy part - to me anyway - goldengirl. Just say to yourself "are you really meaning it is ", then the apostrophe is there to replace the missing i; For example: it's on the table = it is on the table.

Its in its place = it's in its place.

Crystal clear (or not!)

I can't do the possessive ones!

Perhaps Annobel you could explain the rules to me -- please

My teacher of English taught us well and I use her rules whenever I use an apostrophe. i'll see if I can state them clearly for the possessive use.

In a phrase like "my sister's watch" you can ask whose watch? and then answer the question in a different way by saying "the watch belonging to my sister". 'Sister' is the answer, so you put the apostrophe at the end of sister and then an s.

In a phrase like "my sisters' clothes", meaning the clothes belonging to all three of my sisters, you can do the same thing. ask whose clothes? And answer "the clothes belonging to my sisters". 'Sisters' is the answer so you put the apostrophe at the end of sisters, as I have above.

Similarly, if you're talking about time and say "in a week's time", ask the question when? Answer: in a week. Apostrophe at the end of week.

In two weeks' time. Question? In how long? Or, when? Answer: in two weeks. Apostrophe at the end of weeks.

It has always worked for me, though of course I make mistakes!

The last rule is NEVER to use apostrophes for plurals.

Clearly explained Baggy ...that's the way I always taught the process
However ...typo mistakes can easily occur on here too ...even though I do try to check before I post ...one often reads what what thinks one has written!!

I think confusion arises because the possessive its doesn't have an apostrophe so it breaks the rule that works for all other possessives!

Thanks, Baggy, I couldn't have done it better myself. Except for one thing: plurals that don't end in 's': men, women, children.
In these cases, the apostrophe comes before the 's':

children's games; women's shoes; men's trousers

Usborne publishes a really good guide to better grammar, spelling and punctuation - so good that one of my erstwhile mature students still has mine!

Many good explanations here. Well done Baggy! I confess to being a retired teacher too and would add
Point 1 - apostrophes NOT apostrophies.
Point 2 - 'ignorant about its usage' NOT it's usage.
Point 3 - DON'T use it just because a word ends in 's'. Usually this just means a plural - boys, apples, threads, grans, opinions, apostrophes,sons, daughters.
Point 4 - DO use it to show possession. My daughter's baby. My son's partner.
For 1 daughter or 1 son these would be 's.
If I have 2 or more daughters and sons it would be My daughters' babies or My sons' partners. These it would be s'.
I'd say of all the mistakes we are likely to make, the most irritating one would be the one at Point 3.
Finally, I agree, if in any doubt MISS IT OUT.
Heather, sorry but you are wrong. There is a final 's' for different reasons. Sometimes it needs an apostrophe, sometimes it doesn't. If we stuck to your suggestion then we'd all be making the mistakes discussed in Point 3. Heather's 40th is correct! (possessive) Heather's 40 is correct (Heather is 40)
I have seen young teachers make these mistakes but the rules have NOT changed.

Hey Baggy that's brilliant, how concisely explained and I'll now try to remember it. Thanks very much

I hold my head in shame at the mis-spelling of grammar - only excuse is that I was so eager to rant on about the apostrophe I forgot myself. Mea Culpa!

I agree with the advice when in doubt, leave it out.

As stated before, the apostrophe is used for possession and omissions.

If you can substitute the apostrophe word for an 'of' phrase, the apostrophe is correct: eg My sister's watch = The watch of my sister. My two sisters' watches = the watches of my two sisters.

I have seen it creeping in to verbs now too: eg He read's the paper daily.

I think there is a growing myth that for some reason any word ending in 's' needs an apostrophe. People aren't stopping to ask themselves why they'd insert an apostrophe, they simply see an 's' at the end and bung one in willy-nilly!

Known as the Greengrocer's Apostrophe:

apple's, cherrie's, peache's, cabbage's

So true Annobel ...especially on any board, any where in California!

Own up Gransnetters ...how many of you have rubbed it out as you walked passed?

Jacey I never have but have been so tempted! However, when teaching, I felt obliged to point out errors like this when they appeared on the boards of young teachers, in notes from the school office or in the drafts of HT's newsletters!! Sorry, I'll just scurry back to Pedants' corner.

I have actually rubbed one out! But I'm afraid that something happens on here to my grammar and spelling, and I don't often have the patience to check it. I feel I'm not alone on this. Please em don't send this back with corrections!

During my teaching life, I occasionally whipped out a red pen or a stick of chalk and make a correction on a board outside a shop. It made no difference subsequently but I felt satisfyingly smug.