How to 'support' jobless child?

All I can contribute is what one of my DDs did. She graduated with a first and couldnt find a job, worked in cafe on and off for five months and then got so frustrated that she said she would sit at the computer 24/7 and apply for everything. It took ten weeks, but she now does have a good job, although it was only made permanent after six months. Good luck to here and tell her not to give up.

Neither of my DS got a job straight after graduating and both spent long periods back in the family home. Jobs were easier to come by 20 years ago but still not a piece of cake. Both found menial paid jobs and both eventually found exactly the right career. Tell her to keep busy and not to lose heart.

Hi frida without going into your daughters qualifications . My daughter left university with a good degree and couldn't find work. She ended up as a " burger flipper" for McDonald's . She worked her way up to shift manager and now works for a major coffee chain. There is absolutely no shame in starting at the bottom and working up . In today's job market having "something" on a CV is far better than gaping holes or periods of living off mum and dad . It's tough but it's reality I'm afraid. Good luck xx

And any sort of temporary job can lead to greater things - getting into the workplace in the first place is more important than what the job actually entails. Potential employers are impressed by a demonstration of initiative!

How about agency work? DS ploughed his first year at Uni and was thoroughly demoralised. He took a year out before starting to study again, and joined an agency which sent him to an assortment of jobs, from soldering electronic components (boring!!!) to working in the office of the Forestry Commission. Several of them asked whether he was interested in full-time employment - and he gained valuable experience of being in a workplace, and could fill his CV with what he had done.

It doesn't even have to be paid work at first. Charities are desperate for volunteers and this looks good on a CV.

Frida your story is all to common. Most of my friends children have left uni with degrees,scary debts and no job to go to.I know of many graduates working in call centres and bars. My son has a degree in transport management and has spent the last 3 years as a bus driver. He enjoys this and is applying for posts in transport management but no joy yet. My daughter left school with good A level results and went straight to work in a letting office. This unfortunately closed due to the recession while she was on maternity leave and she just can't find a post at the moment. The trouble is vacancies that would be filled by non grads in the past are being taken up by graduates who can't get graduate jobs.My daughter is considering starting her own business to employ herself and others.

Give her time frida it's very hard to get a decent job, especially when a lot of jobs are going overseas. My son was about to take his university qualifications off his CV because he just could not get a job and was going to apply for supermarket jobs. My advice to him was to flood the market with his CV, so he sent it to over a hundred different places and not long after was offered a position as an Internet Engineer through a job agency. He was quite introverted and had to push himself to get through interviews. He really is doing very well now and is still studying to increase his qualifications. D1 took years after her first degree to get a decent job, she went on to complete a Bachelor of Education, then had contract teaching jobs for years before finally landing a position as a Drama Teacher at a private school. She had previously applied this position at this school and it was given to someone else who only lasted a year. My daughter again applied for this position and was successful the second time. She has been there now for eight years and says it is her dream job.

frida my son also graduated in the summer - with a First Class Honours Degree in Mathematics from a Russell Group university - and has yet to get a permanent position using his degree. He is working though as he has had a very good summer job for the last four years. His job is coming to an end this week and in addition to any vacancies in his field he's also applying for fixed-term jobs so that he's in a good position to apply for 'milk round' jobs starting next year. He's getting married next month so getting any job is becoming a matter of some urgency.
I do think that as your daughter is obviously trying hard and doing her bit to get a permanent job that 'tough love' won't really help. You might encourage her to work around the house so that she is contributing to the household, but I think that she probably needs a lot of support right now. When she is in work perhaps she can take you out to lunch as a thank you.

There is nothing wrong with expecting an adult who shares your house (although it is your child) to contribute fully in every way except financially, cooking, cleaning, shopping etc. I also think good idea to nurture the notion that they should in some way be thinking about finding ways to contribute financially, no matter how small (barista? baby-sitting or similar?) My biggest regret is not encouraging my graduate son to do something else, some additional training that he could 'fall back on' instead of only relying on having a degree. He lost his job in 2010 years ago and since then has not been able to find anything permanent. Half the problem is that he sees himself as 'a scientist'; 'an MBA graduate' etc etc. He does do volunteer positions and is slowly diversifying and broadening his options, but it has been tough watching him become bitter too. Not a good groove to dig oneself in to. He has had a lot of support from us and he has a lovely girlfriend, now fiance. I do agree that there is a problem of expectation; that getting a degree is a passport to a high paying job when it isn't so. My DH has always made a very good living as a self-employed electrician and lately, lighting consultant.

I agree with elegran. Most jobs these days go through agencies and a vast number are not advertised. They do not need to advertise when they have people on their books that have already proved themselves reliable. This is a much better way of getting "a job" in the end than sitting applying for advertised vacancies.
It will also expose her to different industries and workplaces and flesh out her CV.
So i would advise that as soon as xmas is over she registers with agencies and rings them weekly to "tell them she is available'. Have a set of work clothes e.g. plain trousers, tidy blouse, tidy shoes etc ready at all times and be willing to be extremely flexible and willing.
In the meantime i think your hunch is right. You need to toughen up a bit and expect her to do her fair share of housework and to contribute to her food etc. whenever she has an income. Anything else is not really helping her to feel like an adult. Young adults tend to regress when they enter their parent's front door and us parents often contribute by treating them as delicate young chicks.
Been there, got the t shirt. Hard not to but it is a mistake.

When my DD1 was looking for work, admittedly some years ago, I encouraged her to get off her backside and stop waiting for jobs to appear in adverts etc. We then did a tour of the City and surroundings where she presented herself at establishments and asked about opportunities and openings. This resulted in interviews and several job offers, one of which she accepted and stayed in for years, gaining relevant qualifications along the way. I am afraid it takes persistance and hard work, as well as accepting any lowly position to start with.
I do wonder whether University is the right way to go for many of the young people these days. I welcome the increase in apprenticeships which are now being made available - much more suitable for some.
I hope your daughter finds something soon frida

Frida Number 2 son was in a similar position, 70 applications and no 'luck'. Largely because his degree was from a University infamous for offering spurious degrees.
He then took a job for the rest of the year working in a Harley Street clinic, which taught him confidence and allowed him to save a little. He went on to do a Masters at a reputable, red brick uni ( got a grant too) and got a job within days.
Could your daughter follow this route?
That was a few years ago and I do realise things are much more difficult these days.
Wishing you both well.
P.S. I don't see anything wrong with the occasional 'treat', she must be feeling very fed up.

The emphasis on the practical usefulness of a degree and on the need for a degree to be vocationally oriented has caused a lot of problems for young people today. Years ago, you didn't think of a degree as a professional qualification. We used to talk about 'transfer of training' which meant the academic skills you had acquired in school and at university could be applied to whatever job you get. The idea of a 'graduate job' is deadening, as well. A new graduate is as useful as a school leaver at first ie they both need training before they can contribute much. You could expect a graduate to be a more confident, motivated and self-reliant learner but it isn't guaranteed.

I think that some graduates have an inflated view of their own usefulness to an employer. I feel sorry for the generation that was encouraged to go to university to do all kinds of degrees - it kept the unemplyment statistics down. Many would have been much better off taking a vocational qualification at the local FE college, or trying to get an apprenticeship. Now, they are left with huge debts and no jobs. Employers are wary of taking on 'over-qualified' staff because they know they will want to move on as soon as possible.
One of my grandsons has an MSc in marine biology from a decent university. He has been unable to find any kind of work, not even volunteering in Third World countries. Most of these volunteer posts require the applicant to pay their own fare and buy their own equipment and the expense allowance is barely enough to support them. He was told that he needed a PhD in order to be considered, or long experience. He got the impression that they wanted only 'trust fund kids'.
I am not able to contact him, but I think his mother may have encouraged him to think he must get a job which he considers suitable for his level of education. Meanwhile, he spends most of his time in his bedroom sending his CV to any possible employer and many different agencies.
His cousin, who is now nearing the second year of a nursing degree in New Zealand, worked at MacDonalds in the UK when she was doing her AS levels and was offered a management training post with them. I believe that they are excellent employers with a good career structure for anybody who wants to work hard and start at the bottom.
Have we allowed a generation to grow up with a huge sense of 'entitlement' - to a degree, to a job, to a house - without the knowledge that those things come with hard work, especially in difficult economic times.

I think we have, Greatnan. And I blame the utilitarian emphasis on a degree as some kind of cashable property that recent governments of all types have made. Even if you consider genuinely vocational areas - law and medicine for example - most of the training for the job goes on after the first degree. And if you add up the years of training and education, it's a very long time before you can recoup what you would have earned if you had gone straight into a skilled job. And I agree entirely with what you say about FE colleges and apprenticeships. I see that technical secondary schools are coming back (Good!). All we need now is to reinvent the polytechnics and we're all set. John Major and Tony Blair between them managed to destroy the technical and vocational education system in this country.

Vocational education is still available in many former polytechnics. My GD and some of her friends are taking degrees in just such subjects - she is taking fashion design and technology and some of her friends are training for the hospitality industry. I pin my hopes on the fact that her university has good contacts in fashion and also that she is willing to turn her hand to almost anything - she has had jobs since she started delivering papers at the age of 13 and spent most of the summer re-decorating student flats for her landlord. Since the age of about 11, she has been my personal shopper... No, she certainly doesn't have a sense of entitlement.

The university expansion etc had another effect. They are businesses. They offer degrees that may sound appealing and even vocational but may be wildly over-supplying a very small market. Marine Biology is, I am afraid, one of those. Very interesting subject. I remember years ago, before there was the big expansion, there was already an oversupply of marine biology graduates. (My DH was recruiting for an environmental consultant - big pile of applicants with marine bio background but he was more interested in someone from physical oceanography, a very mathematical degree)
Forensic science was another one. Silent witness etc etc made it very popular. There are very few jobs and they may well go to those with degrees like chemistry rather than forensic science.
This combined with very little emphasis on careers education in schools.
My D niece has just completed her Masters in history of art. Not a very vocational subject you might think. Her masters is in curating modern art, so more vocational. She has worked consistently at weekends in a clothes shop for the last 4 years. She has also done a great deal of work helping in festivals, exhibitions and galleries, since she was in school. She had got a part time job in a gallery last week (hurrah!) - her retail experience helped I think as part of the role will be working in the gallery shop.
But she still expects to have to work as in H and M on the days when she will not be in the gallery.
A useful real-life illustration perhaps?
I do feel sorry for the new graduates.

My grandson did marine biology because it fascinated him - he spent three months as a volunteer in Tanzania during his BSc , monitoring the effects of the tsunami on the coral reef, but also building schools and digging wells. I don't think he actually considered the practicalities of getting a job. He did work as a dive instructor in Croatia for one summer and now he is looking at commercial diving as a career, as he has every possible diving qualification. Unfortunately, he is not as fit as his younger brother, who has just been accepted into the Royal Navy to train as a Mines Clearance Specialist, with no previous qualifications at all. There is a very rigorous physical test for applicants which his older brother could not pass. Apart from diving, he has no interest in anything non-academic.
Yes, universities are businesses now and I feel they do not give honest advice when touting for students. Most careers teachers I have met have never worked outside teaching and I suspect the same may be true of tutors.
The idea that three years at university is not about getting a job, but broadening your mind and giving you a chance to mature was wonderful when jobs were available. Universities were never intended to meet the needs of all students and diversity in higher education is essential.

Me too! And a number of posts here suggest the ones who get a job even vaguely related to a first degree, even a 'vocational' degree may be unusual. I have one young relative with marine biology working in the prison service (very happy) and a sports science graduate in insurance, also happy. Chemical engineering in a merchant bank, maths in the church............

When my DS1 was in year 11, his careers officer, for some unknown reason, suggested marine biologist as a possible career. Is this their default when they can't think of anything else? Luckily, he went into catering and the hospitality industry, did well in that, then decided to become..... a cop!

Luckily indeed annodomini.
Yes greatnan it is one of those subjects that is really fascinating, therefore easy for Universities to sell any number of places to study it. I might well have done it myself if it had been available back then.
There are over 30 Uk universities offering places to study this subject in the Uk alone and there is absolutely nothing to stop them recruiting 100 students each a year.
Jobs for graduates without a PhD in this field may well be nil. And there will be stiff competition for jobs at that level. I think it is irresponsible and unethical to run a system that raises so many hopes.
The government could tweak the system by offering reduced fees to those who study subjects that the economy needs.

JessM that seems to be such a sensible idea it isn't surprising that no-one in government has taken it up!

There is a "let the market take care of it" (and let the devil take the hindmost) philosophy prevalent in Whitehall these days. Blair and Cameron singing off the same hymn sheet.