Do you ever feel intimidated?

That was to greatnan

I should like to point out – at the risk of a lot of flak – that some posters delight in being victims, moaning, whining and complaining about being intimidated or, even more irritatingly, complaining,, as a self-appointed spokesman, about other people being intimidated. They also burble on about personal abuse when there has been no such thing and are awfully good at the Tony Blair defence (defending themselves or others against an accusation that has never been made). Not you Nanadogsody.

They know who they are; I know who they are (even when they have changed their names). It is just so incredibly predictable and massively boring. It's not a "back off" emoticon that is needed but a "get a life" emoticon.

Bravely said, absent. I've been wanting to say that for a while.
BTW, I keep typing absnet. You won't mind if I don't correct it every time, will you?

No, not a put down, just factual. The only time I have ever been critical of an individual poster was when I thought somebody's idea of 'banter' was inappropriate on a thread about tragic events. If I did think someone had said something unfair and offensive, I would challenge them immediately and I would like people to do the same to me, preferably on the open forum, but at least in a pm. I might want to apologise or explain myself in different terms. Even mass murderers are told the charges against them and given the chance to defend themselves!
I am not going to apologise for stating that I am an atheist and that I am opposed to certain teachings of some religions which I consider pernicious. Some people insist on seeing this as hostility towards individual members, no matter how often I say that this is not the case. Sometimes I feel they are wilfully failing to take my point.

Should anyone have to apologise for being strong, confident or articulate? I have never thought of them as character faults. If I choose to take part in debates on controversial subjects, I expect my views to be challenged but I don't then claim that I am being bullied.

Of course I don't minds Basg.

Greatnan I was the person you challenged on the thread in question. I apologised for my part in that exchange although I was actually trying to challenge another poster about their lack of sensitivity. Obviously, my intention wasn't clear! As far as I am aware you did not challenge the original perpetrator. If I missed that in the thread, I apologise, but at the time I felt very unfairly chastised by you.

I think anyone who has gleaned anything from my postings would know that I am not that insensitive.

So the gloves are off now! Ok those whose voices are loudest and most strident and opinionated can simple say 'you're all wimps, I've never been bullied, get a life, suck it all up'.
When this thread opened there was a healthy and thoughtful debate going on. But it's now gone into attack and defend mode. Any yes, I think we have been here before. It's a shame it's taken such a downward turn.

kitty your post crossed with mine. This is exactly what I was talking about. You feel the need to defend yourself against an allegation that you have already apologised for. Don't.

When this thread was started I thought it would be cathartic and enable us all to continue the way we all want, however, I have to agree with Nanadogbody that there is an element of "get over it" in the posts, which isn't helpful.

As I said previously, I have been on other forums where this type of posting has led to personal attacks

"So the gloves are off now! Ok those whose voices are loudest and most strident and opinionated can simple say 'you're all wimps, I've never been bullied, get a life, suck it all up'. "

Nanadogsbody you have said it all!

Crikey! Get a grip, people! The is Gransnet, not the Uniited Nations. Isn't this going just a bit over the top now? None of us has been forced to visit this brilliant facility for people from all walks of life who have a few things in common. I'm going to enjoy the discussions on the other threads whilst a few people who can't participate in good debate tie themselves up in knots

Is there a point where stating honest opinions and enjoying a good debate runs over into bullying? How would we know if this were the case? Maybe by listening to feedback from those who are feeling intimidated or not properly heard.

Telling them to get balls or clear off is just more bullying.

Incidentally, I don't think the issue is about someone's right to state they are this or that (atheists in the religion threads). It's not what is said but how it is that makes a difference.

But when saying that people who feel intimidated aren't forced to be on Gransnet if they don't like it and that they can't participate in a good debate is just what we are talking about.

It is invalidating.

Kitty, you were not the object of my criticism on that tragic thread.
I am now going to lie down with a bag of frozen peas on my neck as I have a migraine - nothing to do with Gransnet!

Sorry when I know you are a peace maker and this thread is not a peaceful place to be, but our point is....it was a good debate, anyone could feel safe to join in and air their views. Which a lot of people did. But then something changed.
And the thing that changed is exactly what has been causing problems in some other threads. As I said the gloves came off. You may have realised by now I am not a wimp but the reason I was thinking about leaving GN was NOT because of stong, lively debate with everyone expressing their opinions, but because it was not enjoyable any more and a sort of poison was creeping in. Exactly the sort of poison that has crept into this debate.
The kind where it's attack and defend rather that tossing an argument back and forward. We do not have to go back to other threads to see what I mean, it's all here in this one as you have just pointed out it is like the United Nations!

I agree, when. This thread has run away with itself and there is - I think - covert finger-pointing going on which I don't think was the intention of the OP.
petallus, your last sentence puts it in a nutshell.

Nanadogsbody You have misread or misunderstood what I have said, if your post is directed at me or I have expressed myself exceptionally badly. However, I did expect flak. What I was complaining about is that the same few posters constantly make the same groundless complaints and accusations in virtually the same words on a wide number of threads. Other posters have patiently and politely replied on numerous occasions, explaining that no one was making a personal attack, rewording a particular post to make its meaning more explicit because they thought they had been misunderstood or pointing out that the accusation against which they are defending themselves has never been made and so on and on. But it goes on ad nauseum. I can only assume that this is the way these particular people make themselves feel important and superior as I can think of no other reason for doing this.

I also feel that the idea of a back off emoticon is deeply offensive and completely contrary to the ethos of Gransnet.

Our posts crossed, Nanad, but I think we are saying the same things.

I've only just noticed absentgrana's post. 'moaning, whining, complaining, burbling, awfully good at the Tony Blaire defence'.

Blimey!

absent you give with one hand but take away with another! [winning smile emoticon to take the sting out of that comment]
anno perhaps we have all had our say and the point has been made.
petallus

I can't say I feel intimidated by anyone on GN. If someone is more informed then I am, it really doesn't worry me as it is like that in the real world as it is in the cyber world. Nanadogsbody are you intimidated by people in your normal life? There are plenty of threads on this forum where one doesn't need a degree to join in. If you find someone is intimidating you, leave the thread. I do find that there is a definite clique on GN and I hate that. A couple of people commented on my contributions to threads in a very unpleasant way. I actually had a few private messages from GNers saying to take no notice. So you do the same if it make you feel uncomfortable, this is a super forum and it would be a shame if you left.

I have enormous sympathy for anyone who is being bullied and have a track record of standing up to verbal and physical bullies. I do not bully people myself. I have been bullied and am fully cognisant of how deeply unpleasant and frightening it can be. I have not called anyone a wimp and not suggested that they should "suck it all up" – I'm not quite sure what that rather unappealing expressing means but am making an educated guess.

I am not attacking anybody; I am merely expressing my exasperation with repetitive unfounded complaints.

I can't see how Get a life – an expression of exasperation – is more offensive than back off – an aggressive response to something you do;t want to discuss,

There was one thread over a year ago, I think it was in the Religion and Spirituality. Many people commented and gave their views and not one person disagreed in what others were saying, people just wrote about their own views. It would be a shining example on how to have an interesting and lively discussion on a forum. Wish I could find it.

Over a year ago - so in the early days of Gransnet, then, before strong bonds and allegiances had formed. People were just getting to know each other...

dorset there should be no threads where one needs a degree to join in. I don't have a degree but I do hold valuable opinions.