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Brian Earp on Respect

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Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 14:15:49

Here is the introductory part of an essay by Brian Earp on the subject of respect and how what we define as respect affects our ability or otherwise to discuss certain things properly. I have broken off the quotation from the essay at the point where he begins to talk about male circulmcision as practised by religious groups, but the link is to the whole paper, as yet in draft form.

blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2012/10/religious-vs-secular-ethics-and-a-note-about-respect/

By Brian Earp

This is a rough draft of a lecture delivered on October 1st, 2012, at the 12th Annual International Symposium on Law, Genital Autonomy, and Children’s Rights (Helsinki, Finland). It will appear in a substantially revised form—as a completed paper—at a later date. If you quote or use any part of this post, please include the following citation and notice:

Earp, B. D. (forthcoming, pre-publication draft). Assessing a religious practice from secular-ethical grounds: Competing metaphysics in the circumcision debate, and a note about discursive respect. To appear in G. C. Denniston, F. M. Hodges, & M. F. Milos (Eds.), Proceedings of the 12th Annual International Symposium on Law, Genital Autonomy, and Children’s Rights, published by Springer. * Note, this is not the finished version of this document, and changes may be made before final publication.

* * * * * *

Hello,

My name is Brian Earp; I am a Research Associate in the philosophy department at the University of Oxford, and I conduct research in practical ethics and medical ethics, among some other topics. As you saw from the program, my topic today is the ethics of infant male circumcision—specifically as it is performed for religious reasons.

I should begin by saying that in debates on this topic, I’ve noticed that there is sometimes a very serious reluctance to address the issue of religious motivation directly. And this is true even among those who are otherwise outspoken in their opposition to circumcision on other grounds. For example, in 2007, Harry Meislahn of the Illinois chapter of NOCIRC—a prominent anti-circumcision organization—was asked if he would argue that Jews should discontinue circumcising their babies, along with secular or Christian parents who might be doing it out of cultural habit or because they thought it might be good for the baby’s health. He replied: “No. I don’t prescribe for Jews, at all. This is an absolute loser. I’m not Jewish. … I withdraw from this field because it generates lots of heat [and] very little light”[1] (quoted in Ungar-Sargon, 2007).

(He went on to say, however: “I would maintain that a Jewish baby feels pain just as a non-Jewish baby feels pain, and there are Jewish men, just like non-Jewish men, who are real angry that this was done to them.”)

The philosopher Iain Brassington has recently expressed a similar concern. On the Journal of Medical Ethics blog, he wrote: “Though I [have] mentioned the [recent] decision of the German court that ritual circumcision constituted assault, I’ve wanted to stay clear of saying more about it [because] it seemed too potentially toxic”[2] (Brassington, 2012, para. 2). To give another example, the bioethicist Dan O’Connor from Johns Hopkins University—in an article entitled “A Piece I Really Didn’t Want to Write on Circumcision”—has recently said that: “when [a reporter] calls my work and ask[s] if there is a bioethicist in the house who will give the anti-circumcision viewpoint, I beg off.  … I would be a terrible interviewee anyway, [since I would have to preface] my every argument against circumcision with rambling spiels about what loving and caring parents my [Jewish] friends are” (O’Connor, 2012, para. 10).

Finally, as a philosopher colleague of mine wrote to me in a recent email: “To be honest with you, I am strongly anti-circumcision. The reason I don’t [write papers on the topic] is that I have a large number of circumcised Jewish … friends who I think would be offended if they found out [about my views]” (personal communication, May 17, 2012).

Like all of the men I have just mentioned, I find myself in the position of being very skeptical about ritual circumcision on ethical grounds—for reasons I will give in just a moment—and yet I am well aware that since I myself am neither Jewish nor Muslim, I have an especially good chance of offending someone who is when I publically criticize this practice. This chance is, of course, magnified by the fact that circumcision is seen by some as a central, or even obligatory, ritual in each of these faiths. And just like the bioethicist Dan O’Connor and the philosopher colleague whose email I quoted above, this potential for causing offense extends to many of my closest friends, to colleagues of mine, and to a pretty wide range of people I have no particular interest in irritating.

So perhaps there is a reason to hesitate. Because religious convictions are a deep, and certainly emotionally-charged, aspect of the lives of so many, attempts to question a religiously-motivated practice—especially by one who is not religious, or differently religious—can lead to outcomes that are very far from productive. To illustrate, here is a quote from a comment I received on my Facebook page in response to a post I published on this topic in 2011:

Sorry Brian, you’re entitled to your non-Jewish opinion, but we’ve been doing very nicely for 5,771 years with this ancient tradition of our people. And I don’t even know who the hell you are, but this kind of nonsense just pisses me off. (Quoted in Earp, 2011)

So, as I say, sometimes the conversation doesn’t turn out to be as productive as I’d hoped. Part of what I think is going on here, is that we have an unwritten rule in polite society that says that certain ideas or practices are out of bounds for critical discussion. The English humorist Douglas Adams made essentially this same point in a speech he gave in Cambridge in 1998. Talking about religious customs specifically, he said:

‘Here is an idea or a notion that you’re not allowed to say anything bad about; you’re just not. Why not? — because you’re not!’ If somebody votes for a party that you don’t agree with, you’re free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about [that], but on the other hand if somebody says ‘I mustn’t move a light switch on a Saturday’, you say, ‘Fine, I respect that’. (Adams, 1998)

Now, obviously I don’t have any arguments about whether or when it’s OK to use a light switch. I do want to focus, though, for a second on this idea about respect. I don’t think it actually is showing respect to anyone to give an automatic pass to anything they say or do just because it might have to do with their religious practice. I think that sort of avoidance has much more to do with fear than with respect—fear that you might upset the person, or fear that you might sound stupid for not knowing more about the custom, or fear that the conversation might turn out to be awkward, or whatever the fear might be.

Respect, it seems to me, is very different from this. Respect has to do with taking certain positive things for granted. In my own experience, for example, I sometimes talk with my Jewish friends and acquaintances about my views on the ethics of circumcision. And I respect them enough to know that they’ll listen with an open mind, really consider what I’m saying, and assume the best of intentions on my part. And most of the time, they respect me enough to know that I will do them the same courtesy, which, of course, I will. Respect is not about avoidance, then. It is about the opposite of avoidance—it is about engagement, conversation, communication—so long as these are done in a fair-minded and well-intended way.

I also think that there is something potentially very condescending about the idea that someone’s feelings—religious or otherwise—might be so fragile and irrational that instead of just saying what you really believe, and having an honest conversation about it, you should tiptoe around, and blush, and make excuses, and pretend that you don’t mean what you mean or think what you think. That doesn’t seem like real respect either—and I think my religious friends would be rightly insulted if they thought I was operating out of this mindset when I talked with them about their beliefs and practices.

So, having said all that, in what follows, I am simply going to trust that I can engage directly with the ethical arguments for and against religiously-motivated circumcision, without having to hedge or qualify, or worry about whether I might offend someone for whom this practice is seen as being too sacred to talk about. People are free to disagree with me, of course, and I will be happy to take on board any constructive criticism they may have to offer. But I do want to spend the rest of my time dealing directly with the arguments.

I will start with an argument against religiously-motivated circumcision, and then I will consider some common objections.

jeni Thu 18-Oct-12 14:44:17

What a rambling paper!

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 15:42:52

Well dismissed, jeni. He does say it's the draft. What do you think about what he's saying in what you call his rambling way? Substantive or not?

soop Thu 18-Oct-12 16:33:10

Bags...would you think it disrespectful of me to enquire - is Brian related to Wyatt? Naughty snigger and slinks away...hmm

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 17:08:00

You could ask him, soop. wink I wonder how many times he has been asked that.

soop Thu 18-Oct-12 17:09:43

blush I can be so juvenile...wink

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 17:11:07

smile Eternal yoof.

POGS Thu 18-Oct-12 17:19:18

Bags

Blimey Bags how long did it take you to type that lot? smile

I will look at it again to digest 'all' the content. I stopped because it made me remember my DD's uni work. "I think therfore I am". That always stayed in my head, sorry I think I have just rambled. confused

jeni Thu 18-Oct-12 17:39:42

I think he's basically saying 'say what you think and never mind what other people think' or did I misread his ramblings?

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 18:08:44

I didn't type it, pogs. I copied and pasted. smile

No, jeni, I think the view that you express about his 'not minding' what other people think is over-simplistic. Nobody asks the babies what they think. If the babies could think and answer for themselves, they'd say no. Just as I would to a barbaric and unnecessary practice. We are not talking about necessary surgical procedures here.

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 18:13:28

Hmm. Feeling the need to edit. Didn't mean to get onto circumcision. Never mind, the point remains that free speech means that you have to be able to discuss things that people don't want you to discuss, especially when it's an ethical issue. Using beliefs or sacredness or history or tradition as a shield to prevent people from talking about things is wrong. We should argue against such 'dark age' things. The writer is not advocating rudeness; he's advocating talking about ethical issues in an adult way – considering what other people think but not necessarily giving it the importance they may want, depending on justice.

POGS Thu 18-Oct-12 19:05:51

Bags

You made me laugh!

"Didn't mean to get onto circumcision" "Never mind, the point remains"

grin

jeni Thu 18-Oct-12 19:27:51

Bags. I was ignoring the circumcision. You are circumlocutions about what I said!angrygrin

jeni Thu 18-Oct-12 19:28:29

I typed circumlucuting!

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 22:30:36

Am I jeni? Please explain.

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 22:32:21

Meanwhile I'll read the extract again.

Bags Thu 18-Oct-12 22:48:41

I've re-read the extract I posted on here and in the light of that re-reading, yes, in answer to you question earlier, I do think you have misread what he is saying, jeni. At least, I don't see the meaning in it that you suggest: to say what you like and never mind what others think. I still think that's an over-simplistic interpretation.

Please explain where you think I have circumlocuted, as I don't understand how I've done that. I think he is saying that if an issue is an ethical one and there is a question of a basic human right not being honoured because of some ancient tradition, then the issue must be discussed and the rights of the individuals affected by the traditions must be considered. That's not dismissive, in my view, unlike "never minding what others think".

Daman Fri 19-Oct-12 00:03:15

Bags I dont think you went to this trouble of putting the talk on Gransnet for flippancy. I believe your last paragraph (from: I think...) to be stating your position - is this so?
We cant have a debate with Mr Earp because he is not here, so you are his representative - yes?

You are one person and you have your own ethics. What are you putting to us reference Mr Earp's piece?

Bags Fri 19-Oct-12 07:13:13

daman, I thought it would be interesting to discuss the issue of respect. It gets mentioned now and again on gransnet. I came across Earp's essay (via Twitter, as it happens) and thought he approached the subject well. No, I'm not his representative. He is his own representative. As I said, I like his approach so I thought it would be a good introduction. Most people's take on 'respect' seems to be: you can't say that because someone may take offence.

If no-one wants to have a discussion about respect and free speech, that's fine; the thread will just slip off the bottom of the 'Active' page in due course.

Bags Fri 19-Oct-12 07:14:43

In short, I was hoping for a philosophical discussion, but if no-one else wants it, so be it, I shrug and move on.

jeni Fri 19-Oct-12 07:49:59

Sorry. Not philosophical when I've just spent two hours reading one of the six cases I'm hearing today.
Good morning all.sunshine to you all. I'm off to foreign parts today, well Wales anyway.
Looking forward to tomorrow when DGD is coming to visit ( I think she's bringing mummy and daddy with her to drive her as she's only 16 months old)

Butternut Fri 19-Oct-12 07:55:39

I would like to but can't cope with this minute tablet thingy......being away......buut very interesting this concept Of respect..............

absentgrana Fri 19-Oct-12 09:26:36

There seems to be quite a widespread feeling that religious beliefs are in some way exceptional so that although it is regarded as acceptable to comment on, say, political or philosophical beliefs, it is not acceptable to comment on religious beliefs and their concomitant practices. The only other area in which this exceptional condition exists to some extent is so-called cultural practices. I think Brian Earp was spot on when he suggested that this is the result of fear of offending rather than out of respect. That only now the forces of law are beginning to act against forced (not arranged) marriage is an indication of this long-standing attitude regarding cultural practices. I think that discussing an ethical issue, whether forced marriage or forced surgery, should not be restricted because the issue is closely tied to cultural or religious beliefs and practices. I think he is quite brave to put his head above the parapet, but then as a researcher in practical and medical ethics, that is exactly what he should do.

Bags Fri 19-Oct-12 09:31:22

And he's probably got a grant to enable to him to do it too. That in itself is encouraging in that it would suggest that not everyone thinks taboos are impregnable to rational discussion, nor should be.

absentgrana Fri 19-Oct-12 09:38:11

It's always a problem when a practice is entrenched because mere discussion about the specific practice is almost always seen as criticism of the entire culture or religion (sometimes both). Thus debating the ethics of performing medically unnecessary surgery on baby boys is casually classed as anti-semitic or anti Muslim. Consequently, people are very timid about even suggesting such an issue is debatable because they fear unreasonable over-reaction.