british opinion of Arabs

I'm in full agreement with OGM about this, arwa. I have Jewish friends who are also horrified at the treatment of Palestinians, particularly the policy of settlement on the West Bank. An old friend was in Gaza some years ago and saw some dreadful atrocities. When she tried to go back there later, the Israelis turned her back and sent her home to Britain from Tel Aviv airport. She is still a strong campaigner on behalf of the Palestinians.

www.zaytoun.org/uncategorized/plant-olive-trees-in-palestine/

I am 'giving' an olive tree to friends for a Christmas gift ..they will get a card and a bottle of olive oil but a family in Palestine will get some olive trees.

Just posted in case this appeals to other Gransnetters!

I hadn't heard of that ej. I have been sickened at the sight of centuries old olive groves being callously uprooted. Thanks for the link.

hello Greatnan, speaking of relationships (not from the religious point of view), i think that when a girl or a women has a fiance or a boyfriend that everyone knows about and then she got pregnant from him then that's fine as the child's father is known.. i also think that marriage exists to keep the child rights as some men deny the child !! that happens for some girls here in egypt and other arab countries .. that's really bad and that's why girls here never sleep with her fiance before marriage (and definitely it's forbidden in islam)

unfortunately, our society give men more rights, and sadly some people explain Qur'an wrongly .. for example, we have a verse in holy Qura'n in (surat el nisaa) (sura of women) which say:

"And if you fear that you will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if you fear that you cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice"

this means that a man can marry four at the same time, but that is allowed only on conditions.. some men ignore the conditions and just marry women because of their needs

there are some other examples where men have more rights according to islam but on conditions which always ignored by men and society and that's why women in some cultures are treated as having less human rights than men though that's very wrong and it's not in islam ..

i will talk to my friends about that great experience and ask them to join if they like

MiceElf, do you know, when i was young we lived with my grandma for 1 month not just a short visit as usual, that was from best months i've ever had, we were doing lot of things together and she taught me some of Etiquette in preparing the table for lunch .. and we enjoyed eid el-fitr (Islamic feast) together ..

and i like your phrase "I think that in any society strong family and community ties make for a strong and stable society."

Shalom arwa
Very happy you are enjoying this forum. But are you sure it is the right one for you?
After all it was the British who created Israel?

hello Oldgreymare, that's why i really don't like when people judge others based on the political issues .. i know that there are many people refuse the politicians decisions .. years ago i saw a show, where some Palestinian and Israeli people talks about their stories together and how they want the war bet. Israel and Palestine stop ..

i like the phrase 'Not in my name' very good one

hello johanna, i know that, and also Britain occupied Egypt for many years.. but do you know, things change.. now our problem with Israel for what they do in Palestine.. i know it was wrong since Balfour Declaration but it's so complicated.. all what i wish now is real peace not a fake one..

well said Arwa! I have many Jewish friends who are not Zionists and who are against the way the Israeli government behaves towards the Palestinian people. I am sure there are good and bad on both sides but for peace it takes the will of powerful governments to act.

The blame for the current Israel/Palestine conflict lies with two dead Nazis: Hitler and Haj Mohammed Effendi Amin el-Husseini the then Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. He was a known anti semite, and spent time with the Nazi leadership in Germany during WW2. He submitted a draft declaration of German-Arab cooperation to the Nazi German Government, containing a clause:

Germany and Italy recognize the right of the Arab countries to solve the question of the Jewish elements, which exist in Palestine and in the other Arab countries, as required by the national and ethnic (völkisch) interests of the Arabs, and as the Jewish question was solved in Germany and Italy.

We all know how the Jewish question was solved in Germany, by genocide, and his hatred of Jews was so deep, he wanted this to continue in Palestine and the whole Middle East.

With Hitler driving the Jews out of Europe, and el Husseini wanting to murder them wherever they were in the Middle East, and traumatised, angry Jews entering Palestine determined to have their own homeland no matter what, there was little hope for people of peace and goodwill on either side.

I hate what is happening to today's Palestinians, I hate the way they were displaced in 1948, but I understand why the Jews need homeland.

As for solving it all - you would need the wisdom of Solomon, but I believe that the future lies with the peacemakers, not the warmongers and right-wingers.

People like us on here, students, parents and grandparents of different backgrounds and nations, who know that hatred and war get us nowhere, are the best hope for a peaceful future.

Didn't the UK government play their part in setting up the state of Israel in a way that seemed to assume that it was an empty country without a population?

JessM The Balfour Declaration of 1917 – the ground plan for an Israeli homeland – was based on the idea that if the Jews of the diaspora could go to somewhere in the Middle East, then western Europe wouldn't have to accept them. Then in 1947, as you rightly point out, the Brits handed over a large chunk of Palestine to be a Jewish homeland without consulting Palestinian Moslems or Christians. I am not at all sure what grounds there were for Palestine being a British Protectorate in the first place or exactly what a protectorate actually involves.

In the times when the lords of the British Empire thought it was fine to draw lines on various maps. Across Africa, Asia and the middle east.
There were some gems weren't there, and people are still paying the price.

Indeed Jess, if only the West had stayed away..........
It is heart breaking really.

Arwa, how do you and your friends feel about the Obama victory? Almost all of the world outside of America, especially Britain, has been breathing a huge sigh of relief! Inside America it is not quite so one-sided.

I agree with Joan's earlier post. Nobody had a crystal ball in the turbulent days at the end of the war. Who can blame Jewish people, who were able to make it to Palestine, for being desperate for their own homeland? When we lived in Aden in the late fifties, my mother taught English and music to Jewish children who were being prepared for life in Israel. Some of them already had relatives there, some would go on to live on a kibbutz. As a child I was totally enthralled by their courage and enthusiasm and had I been older, would have begged to go with them. I lost two friends in the six day war and was totally on the side of Zionism. That was then.....We have the capacity to grow and change our minds. I have 'in law' relatives in Israel and my brother is there at the moment for a family wedding. They are Jewish but not Zionist. I doubt I will see peace in the middle east in my lifetime.

There are many people who are desperate for their own home but we don't usually think it's okay for them to forcibly take someone else's.

Exodus was a very popular film when it was released wasn't it.
Zionism was a simple, inspiring idea. But deeply flawed. It was a reaction to centuries of anti-semitism in Europe.
The novel Daniel Deronda, written in the 19thC is interesting on the beginnings of the Zionist idea.

Exodus starred Paul Newman - did that have something to do with its popularity?

Oh did it? I'm not sure that I saw it, but it had an exceedingly good theme tune, did it not?

Oh yes, I think that was the first time I was aware of PN and I thought very highly of him but wondered if the bright blue eyes were appropriate for a Jewish leader. I know they're genetically possible though.

The film Exodus was based on the novel by Leon Uris, a very popular writer in the seventies. As usual, events were glamorised for the big screen. The book gives a more accurate account of Zionism in the early days after the war. I have read somewhere that Paul Newman hated the film and never watched it