How long is your nose?

Yes, we all tell lies in varying degrees. The majority are 'white lles' giving socially desirable answers rather than the blunt truth, which can sometimes be hurtful. I would much prefer to hear a softened version, than something harsh, delivered with an uncaring 'but it's the truth!'

I agree and would even allow that it could be fair to lie to protect your privacy - for example, if you changed your forum name and did not want to admit it. I hasten to add that I am the same old Greatnan that I have been since I joined, and will remain so.

I do find it hard to believe that some people have never done anything wrong - perhaps they are just less self-knowing than the rest of us!

A child's ability to tell a lie is an important sign of brain development. I don't think it's always wrong to tell a lie. They have their uses. For instance, if someone asks an impertinent question, rather than tell them to mind their own bloody business, you can give them the answer you think they want just to shut them up, 'politely'.

In some circumstances telling a lie is not a good idea, but the line between what is an acceptable lie and what isn't depends on the circumstances – as with most moral issues. There is rarely a simple black and white distinction between bad and not bad or good and not good.

To lie is to be human. But the word need definition and clarification.

The biblical term, which is well known, is: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. That is clearly wrong. Telling lies about another person to gain advantage for oneself or to denegrate or discredit another.

Then, sticking to a biblical theme there is the sort of lie that Peter told when asked if he knew Jesus at his trial. He declared that he had no knowledge of him at all. That didn't hurt anyone, but Peter was distraught afterwards as he knew he had been untrue to himself.

Then there are those 'lies' where people exaggerate or are economical with the truth. Sometimes these are merely silly or make for a good story, but sometimes they become so blatant that they discredit the teller. Unwise.

And finally there are those lies designed to protect others from pain or distress. There is a judgement call with all of these, but I do feel that sometimes the raw truth is too painful for some to cope with and it needs editing. I'm sure we've all said things to our children for example to spare them distress.

There are those people who insist that popular childhood myths – Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, etc. – are lies. I know of at least one adult who believes that his ability to trust was severely damaged when he found out that his parents had lied about where his Christmas presents came from.

I agree Absent we all tell "white lies" don't we? Surely to tell a lie in order to protect someone's feelings is not a lie in the true sense of the word but merely a miss truth which is not the same things at all.

My grandmas saying when we were listening into adult conversations was

Nosy couldn't come so he sent Gilly

I say it to my own grandchildren now!

A bit of the thread sorry.

Good grief absent that's a bit OTT My children loved to believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy way beyond the time when I'm sure they didn't (especially when I was caught out with a red sleeping bag over my head sneaking the pressies into my DDs bedroom!) as it was in their interests to carry on "believing".

However, I think there is a need for so called white lies in circumstances where people could be hurt by the truth. I try to tell the truth when confronted with a situation, but sometimes it is better to either say nowt or be diplomatic with the truth.

I remember feeling very betrayed when, as a child, i finally discovered that my parents had been lying about FC. I had believed them instead of school friends who assured me he did not exist.

I wonder if it's time i got over it

“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

It was instilled in me from as early as I can remember that to lie was the worst thing you could do, and you can read it in my face when I tell even a little white lie, but sometimes you need to soften the truth but it does not sit easy with me.

Gillybob I love your Grandma's quote
And Glass absolutely - once trust has broken down, it is hard to restore.

For me, that's the best anti-lie thing there is – wondering whether you can be trusted again if you have been found out being untruthful. If you want to be trusted, it's a good thing to bear in mind. Compared to whether I will be trust again, which is important to me, whether something is right or wrong is hardly relevant. But trust is usually based on truthfulness and honesty.

Thanks for the quote, glass. Sums up my view.

We always told our children that we would never know whether to believe them or not if we once caught them lying. It worked to some degree

In answer to your question absent, my nose is quite mobile depending on the circumstances.

My mother, when she suspected I was lying, used to say, 'Look me straight in the eye.' I was very good at that, so I was usually able to detect a lie in either of my own two DSs and nowadays in my GCs. The youngest looks at me gravely and nods his head very convincingly - I don't think.

This quite clearly stems from what I said on another thread so just for anyone who didn't see it - I don't tell lies! Happy to admit it. Why would I? As probably the least devious person you could ever meet I would soon be found out so there would be no point and I wouldn't be able to face myself, which is the most important thing.

There are ways to avoid hurting someone without telling a lie. When my son's fiancee rang her parents and wanted to speak to her mother, who was actually at our house (a different country) her father was not prepared to lie so just said 'she is on a mission'. Knowing her mother she just assumed she was helping someone. He didn't lie, he avoided telling the truth. The surprise was kept and the truth was told.

This is the trust which has kept our family so close and our marriage together for 45 years.

Movedalot No it doesn't; it's a thread I have been meaning to start for several days apropos of something else all together (not related to Gransnet). Your concern that I am somehow obsessed with your posts is becoming worrying.

Movedalot - of course if you say you don't tell lies we must all believe you. If somebody changed their forum name, they would have to be very clever to change their style of writing, location, interests, etc. I know I couldn't do it.

OK, whatever you say! Strange all the coincidences and all the stuff you think you know about me. I am sure the gransnetters who bother about what you say will know the truth. As the young would say '^wha'ever, get over it^

I used to believe that something bad would happen to me if I told a lie. I still find it a bit hard to do. Though I am definitely getting over that now. Needs must occasionally.

What do you mean? There is no Father Christmas?
You'll be saying that babies aren't found under gooseberry bushes next!
( stomps off muttering under breath about tooth fairies being upset!)

Galen

Get over what? I simply pointed out how impossible it would be for anyone to change their forum name without it becoming obvious
I have already said that I think anybody wishing to do so would be perfectly entitled to keep quiet about it
I thought I was being conciliatory!