Grief, sadness and depression

Greatnan - I have never had to face the loss of a child - I cannt imagine how I would cope but I do feel that in general there does seem to be an almost institutionalised war against any negative feelings. Its almost as if we should not have to face them - we are supposed to be permantently cheerfull, and if not must be given pills. (Yes, I'm having a rant so just ignore if you like)
Sadness, loss and grief are all part of living and we do need to learn to cope with them. As children, if a pet died we were told about it - had a bit of a burial in the garden, shed a tear and then got on with life. We learned also that when Grandma died she had 'gone to heaven' and that she had been very old and tired and was now happy and looking after us. If something went wrong at school we talked about it, had a bit of a cry and then just carried on. We did not need councelling when someone stopped coming to school because they were 'very very poorly' - it was just a fact of life. We would all be asked to write a card or draw pictures and someone would be delegated to visit.
I am trying not to sound callous, I am not, I grieve at the loss of my Mum but she was very ill, exhausted with life and I now appreciate she 'wanted to go'. So once I had stopped being cross with her I reached acceptance. I did not need medication or councelling - just the chance to talk about it (a lot) and have the odd weep. WE do need to get back to understanding that life has ups and down. Some of the ups are amazing and some of the downs are pretty unbearable, but it would be kinder if we could learn to cope better ourselves. That being said I would fully agree with a doctors help for someone who, having tried to cope with such an awful thing as you mention, found that they just could not do it on their own.

Very wise words, HildaW

Maybe medication can help people over the first initial shock of bereavement? If my sister had been offered support of any kind we might have been spared three years of alcoholism hell that nearly ended her life. Thankfully she is now ok but we got no support at all from her doctor.
I do agree HildaW that tears and talking are the best therapy for most of us but maybe not enough for everyone.

m.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20986796
Read this- frightening!

And this - www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)60248-7/fulltext

greatnan I am not sure we should be judging the decisions individual clinicians make with their patients.
My niece lost her daughter aged 19 months, following months of harrowing treatment for neuroblastoma.
I don't know if my niece ever took anti-depressants or whether her strong Christian faith carried her through what must have been one if the grimmest experiences anyone could suffer, but I would not have dreamed of criticising her for taking antidepressants, or her GP for prescribing them.

Grief is not an illness. It is a natural reaction to overwhelming loss. But it can become chronic if there is no support system. If you know someone who has lost someone close, do allow them space to talk about that person and be prepared to listen. You don't stop living someone because because they die.

You don't stop loving someone just because they die.

I was not judging anybody, I was merely reporting what the grieving parents said on the programme, which was that they felt guilty for having such strong feelings and that they were given anti-depressants when they felt they were not depressed, just sorrowing. The programme was called 'Medicalising grief'.

I heard that programme too Greatnan and it made me very angry. It was linked to the imminent publication of the DSM5 which is in the link posted by bluebell. What I found most worrying in the programme was the woman who had lost her child and said that within a short time of taking the prescribed antidepressants she began to have suicidal thoughts that had not been present before. This is a recognised side-effect of some antidepressants and such medication needs to be prescribed with great care, not as the first option, and certainly not as a routine response to bereavement.

Exactly Nightowl when I heard the program, ?at the weekend. I understood the main point of concern was largely about the drug company interests and the medical advisers in league with them to offer "chemical solutions" to solve this dreadful but natural grieving process.

Yes, Nellie, I have been reading a lot about how drugs companies work - skewing the results of research to bury unfavourable reports, and putting pressure on doctors to use their products.

I think we are encouraged too much to think that drugs have the answer for everything. It is natural to feel very sad and frightened when someone very close dies but everyone grieves in different ways and the grieving process can't run to a schedule.

I agree with Orca that the most important thing is giving a grieving person the time and space to talk if they want to. I think this might be more difficult for men. Noam Chomsky said that after his wife of many years died, his best friend felt too uncomfortable to even mention her name to him.

I expect there are times when grief is so overwhelming that someone can't function and perhaps a mild anti-depressant might help but I do agree that so many things these days are medicalised (we were talking about ADHD and and Ritalin on another thread) and I do wonder if it is wise - particularly when drugs can have unexpected and dangerous side effects.

I can remember going to the doctor many years ago and he told me I was depressed because I had things to be depressed about and that antidepressants wouldn't help. I have to admit that as things got better - so did I.

Please don't be so quick to judge when anti depressants are given.
Some years ago something happened to me. It was such a shock that I had a terrible reaction. I could not stop shaking. Even my teethe were ratteling. I was able to get an emergency appointment with Doctor who put me on something powerful; but only for 3 days. There is no way I could have coped without that medication.

Petra, we were talking about people being given anti depressants when they were simply grieving.

petra I'm glad your doctor was able to give you something to help you over what was obviously a traumatic experience. This wouldn't have been antidepressants which have to be given over a long period to become effective. The woman I heard in the programme we were discussing said she had gone to her doctor to ask for something to help her to sleep, as she too wanted something short term. However her doctor had immediately put her on antidepressants which made things much worse. I would never deny that medication has a role but I do feel that it is prescribed too readily and without proper regard for the side effects. The drug companies are far too powerful in my opinion.

After my mother died, my (now ex) husband gave me no support or sympathy. He knew I didn't always get on well with her and assumed I wasn't grieving. He knew nothing about the nature of grief. Moreover I discovered that he was 'playing away'. I became very depressed and weepy and eventually went to my doctor who gave me an anti-depressant- prothiaden, in the pre-prozac days - which got me over a difficult period and which I was able to come off easily after a few months.

Greatnan you used the words 'simply grieving'. I am absolutely sure that you meant that in no way a trivial comment so do not think my post is directed to to it.

I think we can all agree grieving is a human process, it could not be anything other than that. However, it is so individual it is impossible to compare one persons grieving period to another. There are so many compounds to grieving, how close you were, your love for them etc. People are different in many ways, some are very quiet, some are loud, some are empathetic, some are hard as nails. When you loose a loved one it can surprise you just how affected you are and quite literally the whole world can crash in on you. Nobody can possibly know, nor understand how another is feeling. I have not lost a child but I can understand the depths of despair a person must suffer, it is most possibly everybodys nightmare scenario.

I think anti depressants have a place. What then has to happen is control by the doctor and the patient, if that is lax then problems may/will occur. If you are feeling so desperately low you could be suicidal with or without tablets so better tot try to help than do nothing in my opinion.

A week or so after J died so suddenly last year, I called my GP surgery and spoke to one of the many GP's who asked in a very callous manner ' Well, what do you want then? Something to help the anxiety or sleeping pills?' Strange, I thought it was for the Dr to decide these things. I had never taken medication for either depression or sleep. I opted for the sleeping pills, which I didn't use at the time. However, recently I have started taking them as the grief does continue in very strange ways as POGS describes. I am full of disbelief - cannot come to terms with the fact that he has gone for good - I am full of indecision, I am lonely - not that I don't have friends and lots to do, but I am just 'alone'. Everywhere I go there are couples and then there's me; I am full of remorse and guilt for what was said or done or not said and done and basically I am one mess, can't sleep and can't see beyond the end of my own nose and I completely understand why people resort to medication, if only for a short while to get them through a particularly bad period.

Gally

Gally

I totally understand your feelings. Some days the 'pit' is deeper than others.

Great heavens, Pogs, how could you possibly interpret my very serious posts to mean I thought grieving was trivial? By 'simply' I meant that they had no physical condition that needed treating by drugs.
No doubt there are people who become clinically depressed after the death of someone they love, but the women on the programme were saying that they felt they were being told that their grieving was in some way a medical problem. Millions of women became addicted to tranquillisers such as Prozac because they seemed to be a quick fix - doctors did not have the time to indulge in 'listening therapy' which was probably what the women needed.
I am in no way criticising anybody who feels they need something to get them through their grief - but I would be very careful about using sleeping tablets in the long term as they are very addictive. Believe me, I know about addiction to over-the-counter drugs as well as prescribed drugs. The problem is that after a while the drugs lose their effect, so the temptation is to increase the dose. I know somebody who ended up taking a packet of 20 Nytol a day.If anybody is concerned, they can google the side effects.

Gally, I also know about the deep pit - if I find myself slipping towards the edge I have to make a real effort to think of something else. I know the horror of spending night after night, going over and over everything you have said or done that might have hurt your relative.
Now, it is probably only one night a week but I still compose long letters to my daughter on my walks but I don't send them because I know she would rip them up.
You will never get over the loss of your dear husband, but I do believe the pain will get less intense over the years.