Are our views always entrenched?

jura, I'm sure that many people would have bought their own home if they could have afforded it. Don't you see? That's the difference – people who buy their own homes are, generally speaking better off than people who don't.

So, if it's allright to vary rent (I think you suggested that) depending on someone's income, then it's also allright for people who have capitalinvestments in the form of a house to use that wealth to help pay for their care if necessary. It's never compulsory, is it? I eman, you can die in your own house if you choose.

It is your home while you're paying rent for it. Tenants do have some rights, thank god.

Apart that it is not your home, it is a council home, for people who need them the most.

Why should people who have bought their own homes have to give them up or share them.

Agree re guilt elegran never a great motivator but great at creating defensive behaviour!

Well said again, elegran. Wherever the fault lies it is not with the people in the houses (except perhaps for a TINY minority), so they should not be made to feel targetted as if they'd done something wrong.

What NOT to do is to pile guilt onto people. It does not make them do what you want them to. Make them want to do the thing that you are aiming for. Giving up your home for some unknown person/people is not an incentive. Neither is taking a stranger into your home, unless it is an idea that YOU thought of as a way to get your spare room to make money for you. It works for some, but not for others. I have a feeling too that subletting may in fact be illegal in some councils.

All brilliant ideas!

We are on a roll elegran but seriously all could happen!

Should any profit from the first resale of a council house by its tenant/buyer within a set length of time be payable to the council in addition to the original buying price?

Should we start right NOW ring-fencing the money from council house sales for building relevant housing? Tens of years too late, but better late than never.

for letting!!

Should we ban the ownership of more than one home unless they are ?

Some good ideas there Elegran

Council tenants do pay rents which are heavily subsidised, so a form of benefit.

Ana I brought up the tax issue because there was talk on granjura's post about needing to raise funds for housing. I think we need to look at all sources of due income whether it be reducing fraudulent/ dishonest use of welfare or tax evasion. Money is money.

I tried to point out that the better debate is around how we solve problems not re-stating the problem over and over again.

If I was playing devil's advocate or on something like Moral Maze I might propose the following questions:

That anyone living in a house with more space than they actually need is morally bound to offer 'rooms to let' to those in need... starting with family for example and then moving on to local community...

Would it be better to use the National Trust /English Heritage houses/ empty offices etc etc as homes?

Should I have paid higher stamp duty when buying my 4 bed house when only DH & I live here?

Should 100% mortgages be easily available on properties under a certain price?

Should building firms get 0% loans to build starter homes/couple flats?

There are so many interesting possibilities to think about but we spend too much time being picky about personal things....

Housing and filling spare rooms was where the thread was last.

granjura and others have been talking about a lot more than housing on this thread.

But how would you get people to move when there are not enough smaller houses for them to move into? Throw them out into the street? Raise their rent so high that they can't afford it and they are forced to move - where to? Make it obligatory for all empty bedrooms to be filled with strangers, under penalty of eviction? Keep a register of people needing digs and another of people with spare rooms and billet one list onto another list? Have swap-shops where one family's children who want to move out change places with another lot of youngsters (plus baby) who don't know the ways of the family they are moving in with?

Would you pass a law that all council tenants must move every ten years to make room for more suitable occupants? That all tenancies should be reviewed annually and houses inspected to make sure that there were no rooms which were under-occupied? Who would do all the bureaucracy? Who would pay them? Who is going to vet both sides of a houseshare so that neither side takes advantage of the other?

It is all very well saying "They oughter" but the practical details of having it all happen smoothly present enormous difficulties, and would cost as much as building more smaller homes and making it attractive for those without families to fill a bigger home to move to them. Then the councils can reallocate the houses to whoever they want.

It is also the thin end of the wedge for council landlords to control the lives of their sitting tenants by decree alone. 1984, anyone?

We have been talking about housing. Most council housing does not come under 'benefits', since most council house occupants pay rent as well as tax.

That the benefits system needs an overhaul is a separate issue.

I must have missed the post where somebody dismissed all public school pupils as toffs and buffoons. Or the one where we encouraged people to claim benefits fraudulently.
I said the present cabinet is not representative of the population it is supposed to serve. Perhaps all Cameron's old school friends are the best people to run the country but it does not seem likely that there are no talented people who did not go to Eton.

granjura has put all her points across well and, to me, convincingly. Of course there are always exceptions, and of course the number of benefit 'cheats' is not as large as some of the media would have us believe. I really don't see why corporate tax -dodging is always brought into discussions like this - if it were completely wiped out, would the benefits system not require any restructuring at all? Was it perfectly all right as it was before the recent cuts?

Jura does not seem cross to me , she is just saying like it is !!!!!!!

elegran .

They should use a carrot instead of a stick. There are more ways to skin a cat that telling it that it is its duty to lie down in front of the mower.

There are large council houses and flats. Not all social housing was built for the purpose! And large families have to be catered for.

I think most households of 50 year-olds comprise two people. It is ten or twenty years later that people are becoming more single again.