Ding Dong .... round 2

I voted for the Common Market because I believed in my naïveté it meant free trade between the countries. I never dreamt it would govern us with rules and regulations. I've yet to be convinced about staying in and am sorely tempted to vote for opting out. To be honest though I find either option scary

GadaboutGran there is that Neil Hamilton character who has the bossy wife!

What was wrong in this debate was that it became personal and the subject of the debate forgotten. Would any of you like to put your views for or against remaining in the EU. Please convince me that it is the right thing to do. This was not meant to be a Political Party broadcast for either Party, but a debate on the pros and cons of remaining in the EU. The point of it was missed entirely.

Isn't Farage over dominant in his own party too? Is there anyone else of worth? Government should be more than about one person.

Chilling quotation, Elegran.

Every potential Hitler starts somewhere. Raise one section of the community onto a pedestal, put the blame for the problems on another, before you kow it, it is a case of

"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me. "

Clegg was on a hiding to nothing. Farrage is an excellent showman, and like Clegg in the leadership debates with Brown and Cameron, hasn't yet been put in a position of having to defend policies that are unpopular. I wouldn't like Farage as PM, or having any more power than Ukip has currently, but he and his merry gang are certainly stirring things up. He and Boris, and other mavericks like them are entertaining but as anno is right about the demagogue little englander approach to life.

Farage may not be a potential Hitler but he is a demagogue, banging the drum for one particular 'little Englander' policy, so hard that there is rarely any clear evidence behind his arguments. Nick Clegg never stood a chance and he (and his so-called advisers) should have had the nous to know that.

I can't believe some of you actually seem to be serious about this!

Neither did Hitler at the start.

Sounds like a lot of politicians, Aka. I think comparing Nick Farage to Hitler is ridiculous - UKIP aren't going to start advocating mass murder however much support they gain.

Don't they all mix fact with fiction? I knew a lady who because of her Government job attended an EU meeting in 2000. She said that at that meeting it was discussed which role EU countries were to have. Germany was to be manufacturing, France agriculture and the UK IT. So look carefully when wondering why our manufacturing business has declined and look to see where it has gone. Look at the way our farmers have been paid subsidies to stop producing and look at how French farmers are supplying milk etc. to our supermarkets. It is a very subtle shift that goes unnoticed. Next they will build on our farm land. Soon there will be no going back.

Hitler did not spring fully-fledged as the leader of the Third Reich. He started off small, was elected leader of his party known as the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (abbreviated as DAP – German Workers' Party). He played on the discontent in Germany by finding a scapegoat for the unemployment and economic downturn, through his rhetoric. He mixed fact with fiction and exaggeration. In this way he persuaded the gullible, the xenophobe, the intolerant and the greedy and played on people's fears.

Sounds familiar?

As for defence, our Armed Forces have been cut back to the minimum. Our new aircraft carriers are being built to carry French planes. If that is not to build up a European Defence Force I don't know what is

My thoughts exactly - and given how many times Clegg used the words 'isolated' and 'terrorist/criminals' to instil a level of fear or apprehension, he believed was adding weight to his argument. It's about time the ruling by fear stopped.

It makes you wonder how countries that aren't in the EU manage to survive!

People voted to join the Common Market, not the United States of Europe, which is the ultimate aim. How did the political side of this 'Common Market' come about? Most of the regulations that our businesses have to adhere to come from these regulations. I understand that you have to make sure that the goods you produce for a particular market have to match the consumers' requirements, but this has always been the case. I lived in Australia when the UK joined the Common Market. They turned their back on a huge Commonwealth trade and were very much disliked for jeapordising jobs there. It must have had the same effect for the rest of the Commonwealth. They simply went out and sold to other countries, like Japan and China. No doubt we would do the same.

As for defence, our Armed Forces have been cut back to the minimum. Our new aircraft carriers are being built to carry French planes. If that is not to build up a European Defence Force I don't know what is. If that is the way forward, then so be it. I doubt I will have to worry about it, but if it is not what you want for your grandchildren, then please wake up and take note. don't just listen to what the politicians tell you, look, listen and think for yourself.

I disagree - he has brought to the forefront the discussion regarding Europe that much of the UK wanted to be involved in, that hardly makes him the next leader of the Nazi party. No-one is talking about him being the next Prime Minister either but many agree with him on his views on Europe and the EU.

He outshone Nick Clegg at both debates. Nick Clegg, like many politicians, has ended up believing his own spin. Judging from the state of Britain, none of them, who make the decisions, are fit for purpose.

I agree AlieOxon

I think this man is very dangerous.

I'm sure you know what I mean, Penstemmon.

My parents attended a Nazi rally while touring Europe in the late 1930s. My mother wrote in her diary that she felt quite inspired and excited by Hitler's words during the course of his speech but couldn't remember what he had actually said the next day.

Ana people found Hitler personable! & he is certainly no Gandhi is he!

Niggle's hardly an aspiring Hitler, is he?

I admit to being more impressed with Farage last night but Aka's quote sends shivers down my spine........

“I know that men are won over less by the written than by the spoken word, that every great movement on this earth owes its growth to orators and not to great writers.” — Adolf Hitler, “Author’s Preface,” Mein Kampf (James Murphy trans., 1939)

What I find so annoying about Nick Clegg, he no doubt sees himself as a libertarian, but seeks to deny all those who would wish to have a say on Europe via a referendum that choice. He comes across to me as somewhat patronising in his view point of "you don't really understand the benefits we receive from the European Union, and there is no down side" He just exemplifies the career politician. Don't ever forget this is the man who thought the pension was around £30 a week when asked a few years ago. Yeah Out of Touch doesn't even begin to describe Cleggie!