Do you believe in the principle "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man"?

I'm on the fence. I agree with a lot of what your saying jings but I also think that a good foundation goes a long way to enabling someone to doing so.

Great Topic and a thoughtful post. The question that springs to my mind is this - If parents/teachers are not to shoulder the blame for later problems are they also to be denied the credit when their children turn out well?

Apologies for the poor grammar.

It's this same topic that ended in tears yesterday , entitled faith or indoctrination.

I don't think there is a simple answer. Some people grow up well in spite of having had a hard childhood. Some people never grow up in spite of all the encouragement in the world.

Possibly there isn't any answer except "It all depends..." – on a random number of random things and on a person's personality, wherher they ever learn to think critically, and so on.

It's just a soundbite. Nothing more. Doesn't mean much really.

As Atqui says, this is the same thread under a new heading. Digging up old bones.

I don't regard it as a cop-out to blame parents and teachers.
I've always thought of it in a more positive way, that the first seven years are a time and opportunity for parents and teachers to instill in their children ideals and the love of life itself.

I take the good from my upbringing, dump the bad bits and yes, put them to good use. I have, in the past, indulged in the 'blame-game', and it served absolutely no purpose, other than to just dig me deeper into the mire.

It was from about my 40's onward that I actively decided to develop a kind of self-governance, or autonomy, which enabled me to exercise independence and control over myself. A form of free will if you like. I needed to. Sometimes I achieve it, sometimes I don't, but what's important is understanding the hows and whys of my actions and emotions, where they come from and knowing that I have charge of them - not others.

I do not believe one needs to be forever defined by one's upbringing. It leaves it's legacy, and informs, but one does not need to blindly continue along it's path.

I like that post finn.

I agree with your second sentence Jane, but doesn't there come time when we have to instil our own ideals? Whatever we were taught early on?

Not meant to be digging up old bones. Just digging a bit deeper.

And widening the subject.

Yes of course Jingl we have to take responsibility for our own learning and development, but it helps if you have been encouraged in early life.
I'll always be grateful to my grandmother for the things she taught me and most of the things I enjoy now date back to my early childhood.

Agree with thatbags post on this subject.

People are so different so I don't think that 'give me a child' can be a hard and fast rule. Yes, nurture matters but heredity often outs. You might think this is going off subject but bear with me (I may even have told this before)

I once popped a goose egg under a broody bantam. She hatched it out and strutted round the garden with her 'chick' which outgrew her within 10 days. She got upset when it swam in the pond and ran around the edge clucking at it. It refused to sleep in trees at night (wrong feet for gripping branches) so she slept on the ground with it. In return it guarded her from the hierarchy of the other hens. And when all the geese came into the garden it hid under the hedge with the other chicks.

One day when it was fully grown (over 7 years in goosey years) it didn't run away when the geese came into the garden but just upped and joined them and thereafter it because a true goose. So much for imprinting and 'give me the goose until..' ......

Yes, I understand it was an animal and all that, but interesting never-the-less. There is a sad ending to this story which I don't want to go in to.

No, I don't believe it. Children are influenced more by their peers than by their parents and teachers. What they are told whilst they are very young and impressionable soon becomes challenged when faced with alternative views and modes of behaviour from people they admire more (their friends and those they wish to emulate). Once they have reached adulthood (and with the onset of deferred adulthood, this is now at a much later stage in the lives of some), they may well rethink their belief system.

Was the adoptive mum heartbroken?

I don't wanna know the sad ending. It's sad enough already!

That was in response to Aka' s tale from the farmyard.

What made you think it was a good idea to put a goose egg under a bantam?!

Did you eat it Aka or was it worse than that? I hope it wasn't a fox.

jingl bantams make good mothers and this one kept going broody. Which means she would sit on a nest, day in and day out, on infertile eggs, hoping for a wee chick of her own. Even if we removed her eggs she'd go and sit on any other egg she could find. This could go on for 6 weeks, so I gave her the chance to be a mother.

I agree with Holly. My DD (although an only child) was part of a close knit family (aunts, uncles, cousins etc).I have always taught her that family comes first and that the people who were there for her from day one are the most important people. She now has a daughter of her own (also an only child). My DD is more 'into' her friend's family than her own now. She rarely sees our family. I have often said my my DH 'why is she like this' 'what did we do to make her think that her family are less important than her friend's family'. His answer is always the same. 'We didn't do anything. We did our best. She is what she is.' Hard to accept though.

Ohhhh! That is very sweet Aka. I'm glad she was eventually fulfilled.

We had bantams in the garden when I was little. The idea was that I would be encouraged to eat eggs. I was very afraid of the cockerel though. He never looked very little to me.

Of course AKA if that bantam had been a Jesuit, it would have been a different story although it may still have had a very sad ending.