Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

Everyone was clearly having a great time and no one was being labelled. I think that's exactly how it should be.

Amen to that

Just a correction to your last link Lumpy this was a woman's Homeless Shelter not a refuge specifically run for victims of domestc violence.

The two women really are homeless now aren't they.

So they ought to have kept their mouths shut and not have given press interviews.

And next time don't try to bend the truth by pretending this was a Woman's Refuge

So they ought to have kept their mouths shut and not have given press interviews

No they didnt.
Not keeping quiet about things, doesnt change things.

I just checked my post, I sated that it was a women's refuge and it is a women's refuge, I didn't say it was for dv victims.

The link takes you to a written article and an interview with the women, fairly transparent really.

Do you think that homeless women should have to share with men then? I think it's terrible that two women are now on the streets because they have spoken out. Obviously you think that they should have kept their mouths shut, lots of people want women to keep their mouths shut about this.

I read it thank you LSP and it appears that this is one "chain" of women's refuges, not necessarily standard practice across Canada and although I may stand to be corrected.
The news agency /internet source however at first glance would make the Sun (sorry Sun readers) look like the Guardian, with its "cutting edge" stories -Amal's "baby bump", "man says he bought muffins at the Okotoks Costco and found part of a metal bolt baked inside one of them " (now how's that for a punchy headline?) Kate's (Middleton not Hopkins) most beautiful Birthday etc etc etc So I think one could be confident of finding a shock, horror story there.

According to wiki in Canada the word shelter and refuge are interchangeable, plus Another client named Blaine was also staying at the shelter. She recently fled from an abusive relationship and says she’s uncomfortable with a transgender person staying at women’s only facility.

So one of the women was there because she was fleeing an abusive relationship.

Still think that she should have kept her mouth shut?

I understand the sentiment, but does one abusive male partner make all men abusers?

So now this poor human being who is in the middle of transgendering AND homeless is the baddy? And the women who couldn't emphasise (or understand that they are in no danger from the penis of someone on female hormones) and broke a written agreement are the victims?

Yes, she ought to have kept her mouth shut to the media especially if she was fleeing an abusive relationship and didn't want to be found. But her lack of sympthy (or was it for cash perhaps?) means she's out on the street. I'm sure had she stayed calm and rational a solution would have been found as soon as another bed became available.

Not all feminists are 'man haters' Lumpy . Do you never take a pause and consider it from the other person's perspective?

Why am I even bothering?

So now this poor human being who is in the middle of transgendering AND homeless is the baddy

Where does it say that?
It isnt really an either or situation is it?

or understand that they are in no danger from the penis of someone on female hormones

are you guaranteeing that?

If someone flees from an abusive situation, I suspect that some of them are more jumpy around men generally?
I presume that is why womens refuges in this country are still for women only, presently?
Or am I wrong on both counts?

Maw - of course not all men are abusers, most men are bloody lovely.

However 98% of sexual violence is carried out by men, so I feel very strongly that women have the right to sex segregated areas.

Jessica Hambrook gained access to a women's shelter in Canada and sexually assaulted 4 vulnerable women so it has happened.

Women campaigned long and hard for sex segregated toilets and shelters, they weren't given to us, we fought for them and it took decades, centuries even.

I would march for trans facilities, or separate rooms for transgender individuals.

I am sure the transwoman in the shelter has suffered, obviously not Jessica Hambrook he was just an abuser, but the other lady. She doesn't get to trump someone else who is vulnerable though, they should both be respected.

That is just my opinion though, you're welcome to yours.

It isn't just safety is it, it's dignity, the females in the shelter have the right to dignity, at least I think so.

If someone will go the press with a story about transgender people in the shelter then perhaps they would also tell the press about other women in the shelter, making it easier for an abuser to trace them. You simply can't have someone who does this sort of thing in a place where people come to find shelter and safety, the story doesn't really matter, the principle does.

The women only exposed their own identity and they lost their right to safety, they were only putting themselves at risk because they felt strongly. I think it's unfair to think that they would go to the press and reveal the identity of other women in the shelter, why would they do that? They were both concerned about having to share a space with a male, that's all.

It doesn't require names for someone to identify people, just some small references to personal details can identify women to people who are trying o trace them. The principle of safety in a refuge or shelter is never give information to anyone about any of the residents, if it is waved in one case a precedent is set which could cause real difficulties for others. The women could have asked to be moved if they were uncomfortable without going to the press. The issue of transgender is irrelevant.

The issue of transgender is irrelevant.

No it isnt! It is the whole point of why they spoke out.

The women could have asked to be moved

Well yes, but would it have been done? I dont know.

It doesn't require names for someone to identify people, just some small references to personal details can identify women to people who are trying o trace them. The principle of safety in a refuge or shelter is never give information to anyone about any of the residents, if it is waved in one case a precedent is set which could cause real difficulties for others.

True.

If the principle is agreed then what would you do about someone who went to the press and spoke about a resident in the shelter Ankers just ignore them? If you did so it would send a signal that you can earn money by selling stories to the press.

Good point. But that is why they were thrown out.

I think what they should have done was waited until they were out. And then talked about it in non specific terms.
Though whether the newspaprer would have taken the story in that instance, I dont know.

A refuge, that I have had a working relationship with, has very strict rules about residents talking to the press. It makes the refuge more vulnerable to identification and puts all residents at risk of being traced. Many have gone there to escape from abusive or other unhappy situations.

Is that why the women were asked to leave rather than on their stance about a transgender residnet that may or may not have been a valid one?

It probably was Penstemmon, they may well have knew that when they spoke out but still felt compelled to do.

www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/191040/unease-over-shelter-guestShe did ask to be moved, or to have someone else to share with. That is concerning.

Also, the Kelowna women's shelter IS a shelter for abused women, it offers a safe place for women and children who have had to flee intimate partner violence, their motto is Ending abuse, building hope.

There should be more places for anyone in trouble, all the people in this need a safe house and access to support. I do feel that women have the right to access sex segregated houses but there must be adequate provision made for transwomen escaping violent relationships, even if it's a separate bedroom.

But she wasn't kicked out on the street as some have said. She was removed for 24hours and accommodated in a local; hotel. With a shelter for 20 housing 26 it must be difficult to move people around.