Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

She was trisher, then she was permanently excluded.

To be fair she could be an absolute asshat, they both could, but I still think that a woman should have access to female only space.

This is one example but the truth is that when the law changes we lose all access to female only anything as female is now impossible to define.

That's my concern, women can't compete with each other, meet without male bodied people, have girl only clubs, see female doctors, access correct sex based crime stats, use language to describe ourselves. It will all be gone.

That really, really concerns me. When I see a male rapist described as female, or a male cyclist winning a women's cycling event it makes me cross.

It's not fair and it could be dangerous.

This is the sort of thing I am on about.

Bridget Jones trilogy is the second movie trilogy to have had all female directors, quite an achievement.

When the article was first printed it was hailed as the first trilogy to be directed by women, until trans activists kicked up a fuss.

See the first trilogy with all female directors was the Matrix series, directed by The Wachowski sisters Except they were both men when they filmed the series, so there was no struggle to be taken seriously or all the other obstacles that women face in Hollywood.

They were men when they directed the Matrix. The bridget jones article was reprinted and first changed to second.

Now I think that's awful, really awful. Imagine if it was the first trilogy filmed by black directors and they were white when they filmed it then chose to black up at a later date.

LSP - I'm absolutely with you. How very bloody dare they? It's exactly what the TRAs do - they want to eradicate the successes, safety and achievements of girls and women. Deny our very existence. And they have hardly started. There are transwomen who really disagree with this approach and some are brave enough to speak up - you can guess the abuse they get. WTF is wrong with a specific category of transwomen / transmen ( although the latter are not the problem and anyway men wouldn't let them take over even if they wanted to). Did you see Gaby Hinsliffe's article in the Guardian yesterday? She used the phrase 'cis women' as though it were non problematic . Liberal feminists - I've left that sisterhood thank you

Yes, respect material reality but make provision for transmen and women. Surely that's better than expecting society to live in a permanent state of cognitive dissonance.

and as for "cis" they can poke that. It's like being forced to choose a religion with no room left for people who aren't theists.

LSP, your comment 'Imagine if it was the first trilogy filmed by black directors and they were white when they filmed it then chose to black up at a later date.' made me think of Rachel Dolezal who identifies as black despite having no black genetic background. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Dolezal

She was vilified, yet Caitlyn Jenner receives a woman of the year award even though she had just been involved into an accident which killed a woman.

What does CIS stand for? I know is is used to describe what I would describe as "a woman", but I don't know what the letters mean

I think it comes from a scientific term that means matched, or aligned. the idea is that your gender matches your body but to a lot of women that's really insulting as they believe that gender is the way you are socialised by society, which is why it changes over time and place. The transgenderists believe that gender is innate.

I have a female body and a personality which is my own, I don't believe in gender.

What really gets my goat is that language is Very Very Important to trans activists. Respect the pronoun of choice, do not talk about female biology, burn books that mention female biology, well, they broke into a library, intimidated the female volunteers and poured wine on the books but you get the picture. So, the Words we use must be policed lest we offend, but the trans activists, indeed it's common everywhere, rename women as cis which is so deeply offensive to many.

The term cis confirms their whole theory, that everyone has an innate gender. So it is like telling a non Muslim that she is a Christian, even though she doesn't believe in any god.

Not what it says in the newspaper article
"“If that is to happen, people are typically given multiple warnings before they're asked to leave, and then there is always another resource that's made available,” she said.

The woman who says she was kicked out for 24 hours spent her night out of the shelter at a local hotel.

Note "her night"!

By the way I Love Cheese too! Great username!

The recorded article said that both women had now been excluded permanently from the shelter, they were looking for somewhere together. As I said, they could both be asshats but I still believe that women have the right to sex segregated areas.

They were probably kicked out because they went to the press as opposed to their views.

LumpySpacedPrincess Thank you for that. I saw the Gaby Hinscliffe article too, I do hope this term doesn't become the norm.

This is good. Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie on the difference between women born as women and trans-women: their life experiences are different. This doesn't affect their equal right to be accepted as they are.

She was great wasn't she, but look at the abuse she is getting.

Ankers if you are still around this is a fantastic article on brains and brain plasticity which I've just read.

Good article by Rachel Johnson about this.

Two interesting articles. I would need some time to thought process them, especially the first one.

I read the first one twice and still can't claim to understand it all!

I like Rachel Johnson and agree, her article is good

I thought Rachel Johnson's article was good too. Truth matters.

LSP Trans people are looking to language in the same way as feminists did in 70s: e.g Ms/chairperson etc. etc.

Given that language is a very powerful medium I can understand why the activists taking it on as an area for change. However I do agree that gender is a social construct: Sugar & Spice vs Slugs & Snails etc.

I do not know many trans people but the people I do (all M>F) are aiming for 'ultra feminine' appearance and behaviour whereas many women are not. Does anyone here know a trans person (M>F) who has chosen not to have a really feminine appearance & dress? If it is the case that ALL trans (M>F) become 'ulta feminine' in behaviour/dress etc then that does not reflect the range of behaviours of 'born' women. Not sure where I am going with this,just my stream of consciouness really.

The only trans person ( man to woman) I have known, chose to look like Danny La Rue with make up/wigs.

M>Ts are very often a complete caricature of born women. Those that aren't, such as those that make no concessions to appearing as women e.g. the bearded bepenised men who claim to be women are the real worry. Should the proposed legislation go through, they will never be able to be challenged in any female space because they "identify" as women.

I cannot believe it is impossible to protect trans rights while not trampling over women's hard-won rights to safe spaces. Clearly though the MPs can't be arsed to apply some critical thinking to this legislation.

Ilovecheese - meaning of "cis.." I have not loked this up in a dictionary so it may not apply, but I remember from lessons in Roman History that the Romans referred to two halves of Gaul. There was Transalpine Gaul (on the other side of the Alps from Rome) and Cisalpine Gaul (on the Roman side of the Alps) so perhaps "cis . ." has been applied to those who have not made the transition to the "other side" of the gender divide?