Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

Granby, your daughter sounds lovely but she is a not a good basis for changing the law so that any man has access to female spaces, jobs, scholarships etc.

Also, there is no such thing as a sexed brain, brains do not work like that though the idea of a female brain is often trotted out by men.

The brain is plastic so female brains will change while they are socialised as female, it's society that is shaping the brain not a difference they are born with. Just like you can spot a taxi drivers brain!

There is a huge amount of well researched, peer reviewed papers on the human brain if people are interested.

LSP. I will ask you again. Please provide links[obviously you do not have to].
But personally, I am not going to take much notice of your posts, if it is just words by you, with nothing to back them up.

You may well be write, but look, I can write anything too. I can write
"The brain is not plastic so female brains will change when they are socialised as a female". And "there is such a thing as a sexed brain and there is a huge amount of well researched peer reviews papers on the human brain".
See how easy it is?

Lumpy you show your ignorance of current biological research. when you deny the science that is emerging about the brain. The earth isn't flat and the sun doesn't orbit us.

The whole discussion reminds me of the way gay people were treated in the days when homosexuality was first decriminalised. I'm shocked and saddened by the whole tone.

Ankers, I wish that I was making this up, I really do.

gender recognition bill

All the other information is out there, it's not hiding or hard to find, Mumsnet feminist boards are a good place to start with links to , there are threads that contain links to all the stats/studies, crime figures etc, just go look. read the information then make your own mind up

I think that it's our responsibility to educate ourselves so we can make an informed decision.

Right, off to work, catch up later.

Girl guides now allow people in based on gender identity, not sex, also transwomen can compete in the Olympics against females based on new rules. The bbc often report crimes by men as crimes by women, Bethany Hills murder was widely reported as a murder committed by a male and female couple, she was murdered by a male and a transwoman.

Google is your friend.

In light of what Anya has written[who I do not know, but has written often on gransnet] and LSP[who may have been on gransnet a long time ofr all I know, but cant say I have noticed much on GN] I will take on board what Anya says.

I personally have no intention of rumaging around on MN for appropriate links or not as the case may be to what LSP writes.

LSP may be right for all I know, or she may be wrong.

Bearing in mind all I could find about non segragated toilets was a Telegraph article from 2014, and what Anya writes, then I think I personally will hold back from taking on board things that LSP says for now.

Hmmm, well my thoughts are that if they have a womb and can give birth, then they are a woman as God intended. If they can't, then they are a man.

Granby why is it important i dont upset your DD by saying she is not a real woman, it is not an insult it is a statement of fact and why is your daughters thoughts and feelings more important than mine or anyone elses ? This is where the nub of the problems lies, LGBT ETC feel they are more important than other people,that their wishes must be given priority andthey demand respect but dont give it back. Your daughter is no more important than i am.

That is outrageously GP and even worse from nina bringing god into it.

I can't believe I have just read this

Outrageous

Because you dont need to say it at all grannypiper?

By seeing you, I might want to say all sorts of things about you, but I wouldnt would I?

That makes things equal doesnt it?

A statement of fact can often be an insult. Dont you agree?

Suit yourself Anya. It's what I believe and if everyone else is allowed their beliefs, I can't see why I'm not allowed the same. I grew up C of E, I remain C of E, that's what I believe.

I've just read that Jenni Murray has been given a "warning" by the BBC. If this is true, then the BBC is not being impartial, which it is supposed to be. Such an "impartiality warning" from a supposedly impartial and apolitical organisation is wrong. She is being given the warning because she is not toeing a certain line, which shows the BBC has a specific political position on this issue. It shouldn't have if it wants to be called impartial.

Why can't the BBC just give a disclaimer about all opinions expressed? Surely that's the only way it would be showing impartiality? It's supposed to report viewpoints, not make value judgments about them.

My main point was though..................do they have a womb and can they give birth? I believe this two biological issues is what makes a woman a WOMAN. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Ankers there's no point in trying to change the opinions of narrow-minded bigots, especially narrow-minded old women (real or not).

why am I picturing Madam Defarge?

anya, it's not outrageous for someone to express an opinion, whatever the opinion or belief happens to be. Or were you just saying the opinion was outrageous, not that the expression of it on this thread was outrageous? I hope the latter

I don't think the purpose of Gransnet discussion threads is to change people's opinions. The purpose is to allow people a place to express their opinions.

It's sad when the debate sinks into name calling. That's why I only visit here occasionally.
Just to clarify my thoughts..........people can do whatever they like, I don't have an issue with it as long as it does not infringe my own rights. I would not want to share a toilet or shower with a woman with a penis.

Bags sometimes I wonder at your role in playing Official GN Devil's Advocate

Although Jenni Murray has a right to her opinion, I agree with Anya and Luckygirl on this issue.
I thought also that Granby gave a very moving account of her little girl and was brave to put it on this thread.I am pleased that her daughter is now happy.

I am truly shocked that Jenni Murray has been issued a warning. There are no grounds for this action and we should be very worried indeed about the impartiality of the BBC. Attempts to stifle debate and free speech are taking us down a very slippery slope; and for that to be evidenced in the main GB broadcasting outlet is wholly unacceptable.

She is entitled to her opinion and to voice it - it is truly dreadful that the BBC has bowed to pressure over this.

I would have thought it obvious that I was calling the opinion 'outrageous' Bags but apologise if my post was ambiguous.

As for 'name calling' if I think someone's opinion is narrow-minded and bigoted then that is how I see it and tough if it upsets your sensibilities. These same people are not afraid to upset other posters whose children, or indeed the poster themselves, make suffer from gender identity issues, but oh dear! let us not upset them or challenge their narrow mindedness.

My first thought was absolutely Luckygirl. Bu then I thought that she said her views to a newspaper.
And I cant decided if that muddies the waters a bit, for a broadcaster, though not at work, to do that?

But yes it shows blatantly, that the BBC is far from impartial. But I think a lot of people knew that already?

Though I am still surprised and somewhat saddened, that their lack of impartiality is so clear to see.

"The BBC says it has warned Woman’s Hour host Dame Jenni Murray to stay “impartial” after she spoke out about transgender women in a newspaper column.

That's far from a 'warning'

The BBC is actually reinforcing its policy to be impartial.

Don't believe everything you read on GN ....pass it through a reality filter first.

Anyway I'd better get moving as I've thing to do, places to go and people to meet.