Displaying emotions

devongirl you may think so, but the mood immediately after the Tower fire was certainly not one of respect or sympathy, but one of anger and indignation. Holding vigils doesn't effect social change at all. Pushing the K&C council to allow the occupation of empty properties was certainly one of the demands being voiced, but it is gradually fading into the background. One might also be very concerned about why the death count is being so slowly increased. Usually the authorities will announce an approximate count, in this case other people have posted much larger figures but the authorities continue to only announce confirmed figures- hoping to soften the effect?

This fashion for laying elaborate bouquets of flowers at or very near to the spot where someone has had an accident or even died - how many would participate in this copy-cat activity if tv cameras, news presenters and media photographers weren't present?

I suspect the majority of those shedding theatrical 'tears' are seeking out what Andy Warhol accurately described as their "15 minutes of fame"......

The bodies will be burned to a cinder, some would have held loved ones close, their corpses will be as one , they will not be laid out in a line for a head count, I think these posts suggesting dark plots are nasty, and accusing the police and firemen of being part of a cover up.

Try other ways to get people to vote your way trisher not use this human suffering to score points against a council.

I'm not using human suffering Anniebach I am pointing out that there have been other disasters where bodies were unrecognisable, or unrecoverable, but there were estimates and possible figures given by the authorities immediately. Now it seems to be local people and celebrities who are giving more accurate possible totals and asking why this is so. You only need to read a few of the accounts to know that there are greater numbers.

Surely it must be possible to give a rough estimate

no. of occupants - people in hospital

Sorry ignore that! have to also subtract no. of survivors, don't know if there is any register of who they are that would provide a count|?

They have lists of residents. Those lists might not be accurate as there may well have been some unrecorded family members or friends also occupying or visiting some flats and some residents may not have been at their flats, but at least it would give some idea of basic numbers.

Is anyone able to tell me exactly how 'the public' demands people show their emotions? How are these demands manifested?

I keep wondering if it's a media-led thing; we i.e. the public - are told this is what's happening.

The conclusion of most people who have knowledge of the block seems to be that it will only rise and will possibly be over 150. This was a number first circulated immediately after the fire by Lily Allen (who I can't say I like), but no official estimate has been released, only a slowly rising confirmed.

Did you see the interview with George Clarke, the architect.
He said that no way should a building being refurbished last year have gone up in flames like that.

The queen is the only one who gets it right, she's been there for so many people these last few weeks.
Lovely photo of Prince William hugging a poor desolate lady, he looked absolutely shocked and he said he is going back and he will.

I agree,Sheilasue.
Diana would be proud of the way he's turned out.

Yes, very unbritish! I can't bear all this media circus, crying, singing, lighting candles...just get a grip! I can't stand the stupid 'celeb' pretending to care, making money for themselves really. Crowd funding g yuck! Yuck! Yuck!

So Lilly Allan - who ever she is has given the public the number of dead

I will stick with the way it has always been done , officially , I just don't think the council are going to smuggle bodies out after dark but works as a conspiracy theory I suppose

The windsors have had a life time to get it right

What happened, Annie?
Why do you have to be so bitter about everything?

"Have we become too touchy feely?"

Yes in my view - I actively resist hugs and kisses from anyone other than family and close friends. I care, have feelings, and I love a hug from a loved one, but not from any Tom, Dick or Harriette. (I wouldn't say no to prince Harry).

Also, given that we are such a multicultured society, (and certainly the tenants of Grenfell Tower were) we need to be aware of the mores of others. If I wish to show empathy, I find a light touch on the arm works well and rarely offends.

The Queen gets it right but partly because few people disrespect her. It was beyond the pale to call Theresa a ' murderer' as though she is not a human being with feelings. The Management Committee of the Flats surely holds first responsibility for the fire although if they were assured by experts and safety inspectors that all was well, they can hardly be blamed. Presumably the tenanrs would also have turned to their MP and maybe the mayor, but we do not hear these being blamed?

Apologies if any of above not relevant I confess I did not read all the posts.

It isn't a question of 'smuggling out bodies' Annie simply of trying to mitigate the anger by slowly feeding information rather than giving a high estimate immediately.

If the fire was hot enough, there may not even be bodies to count. They will have lists of people paying rent, but they may not have lists of how many were actually living there, and if they did, they may not have been at home that night, or there may have been others visiting. If children didn't turn up for school, that could be checked against addresses, but the school can't report that the child is dead, only that he/she is not at school, and they may be in hospital, living with relatives, taken to another town by family and friends. The electoral roll may give numbers of people of the age to vote.

All this takes time and manpower to collect information and collate it, even to get approximate figures. It is easy to say that they should know, but anyone who had kept a dossier on each flat and the comings and goings would be in trouble for invading their privacy.

The best people to ask would be their neighbours who know who lived where and whether they have heard that they are safe. This is where the reports are coming from, but even that isn't conclusive. There may not even be neighbours still alive to list them.

About two hours ago an official figure of 79 'dead and missing' was released. I hope it is true as it could have been much worse considering what happened. Apparently 18 people remain in hospital. They did say it might have to be revised.

It will be revised and it will rise-little doubt about that.

The senior met officer has painstakingly explained the various reasons why exact or estimated figures of how many people were killed in this fire.

Trisher, it is so wrong to give estimates, these are human beings, I don't want the authorities to say think of a number and add 10. We had estimates during the foot and mouth epidemic

They will revise the number when they have a true number not a wild guess.

Good post Elegran , calm and logical

Yes thanks elegran. My brief comments x posted with your clear well comments formed one. I posted quickly because whilst I sympathise with the demands fro those directly involved, I was su prised that some posters seemed not to hav listened to the information from the emergency services