Displaying emotions

annie I think as has already been posted, it is pointless waiting for ' a true number' because some bodies will have disappeared or been fused with others; sorry to be gruesome but appallingly that will be the case at such high temperatures, you only need to look at the damage to the flats to accept that.

I think he first reaction is to assume that the authorities have all the information to hand but are not releasing it, but in this kind of situation facts arrive a few at a time and quite unco-ordinated. The first imperative is to rescue as many people as possible and the next is to try to prevent damage and destrcution.

There is probably a lot of dupication as one informant may say that they know of, say, Harry and Elizabeth XXXX and their schoolage children Ann and Tom, while someone else mentions Betty XXXX and her daughter Annabel. Meanwhile another hasn't seen Lizzie X and her baby since the fire, and Henry XXXX hasn't been in to work. These could all be the same family known differently to different neighbours.

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Devorgirl, I have already spoken of some bodies being fused but to accuse the authorities of deliberately withholding numbers isn't fair and then to quote a Lilly Allen and her guestamate is so wrong, has sge been in and counted the bodies?

All Chinese whispers , there is no reason not to disclose the numbers of fatalities when there is a definite number

Prince William has worked on rescue helicopters, so he was the right one to go with his gran

Yes, I thought he was the right choice to go with her too; he has seen tragedy albeit on a different scale, rescued people and knows how the rescue services work.

I think that HM and the royals who are above politics are, in times of tragedy like this, a focal point for many people, a symbol that is enduring and perhaps what some, not all, people need at times like this as they were during war-time.

HM is not going to start crying and hugging either, but will listen to people. Added to which she is showing that she genuinely cares and who knows what pressure she does bring to bear behind the scenes to those who need to take action?

I have no time for celebs and their photo opportunities which are all about them and not about the victims.

I find this thread a bit strange, to be honest. Do we need people to show their feelings? Well, yes...I think we want to know that people understand and respond to the pain of others. As human beings, it seems quite natural to expect some sign of empathy towards people in the throes of grief and pain, and we are understandably doubtful of people who seem incapable of showing warmth towards those who are suffering.

I don't think anyone expected May to break down in floods of tears over Grenfell Tower but it seems to me that any normal human being reaches out towards people in pain and, if possible, tries to comfort them. Corbyn has been criticised for hugging people, as if that makes him a phoney, but it just seems a human thing to do. Ditto the Prince, who naturally hugged an old lady grieving for her husband. I'm not trying to make this political - I'm a republican with no time for the monarchy but, at least, they tried. I don't think emotion comes naturally to the Queen, on account of her upbringing, but she did make the effort to look as if she had some inkling of what the survivors were going through. I'm afraid Theresa May just comes over as robotic. Maybe it's her manner but it's also the result of her opinions.

As for celebs, if lending their names gets publicity - whether it's for fund-raising or for campaigning - is that such a terrible thing?

George Michael may have been a celeb but the charity work he did including working for the homeless etc was without photographers there to document his every move and was not for self-publicity.

I think the police are quite angry about Lily Allen and her pronouncements according to the news the other day. They make announcements when they are sure and as things are at the moment the firefighters are doing a very dangerous job to try to account for people.

Exactly Jalima Lily Allen should be quiet, she is guessing at numbers.
In any case why are people getting worked up about numbers? Seventy or a hundred, it's all tragic and terrible.

skwawkbox.org/2017/06/19/heartbreaking-video-as-grenfell-residents-count-out-their-true-toll/

These aren't guessing.

Actually, roses, I find that a terrible thing to say - 70 or a hundred - who cares about the odd thirty. Why get worked up about numbers?
That must rank as one of the worst things you have ever said on here.

Yes, it is and I am not sure why people other than those who have lost someone need to know numbers at the moment. There will be painstaking work undertaken to establish who was there but we may never know as there may have been visitors or people who were away, as another poster said.

You have totally misinterpreted rosesarered's remark djen - she is saying that this is a terrible tragedy and, as I said, it is those who are directly involved who need to know just who was there and who lost their lives at the moment until all the painstaking work is completed.

She is not saying "Who cares about the other 30" she is saying that ANY number is a tragedy - and it doesn't really do us any good to know an exact figure, or even an estimate. It certainly doesn't do any good to catigate them for not releasing figures without a reasonable idea to base them on.

"The names of more victims of the Grenfell Tower fire are expected to be released on Monday as the painstaking process of sifting through charred debris to find missing people continues."
"The latest death toll, according to the police, is 79, although five people previously thought to have perished have been discovered alive."

If they give what they say is a definite number, they will be asked next by the press for a list of names. Imagine if those five who have turned up alive had been on a list of the dead for their families to read?

Precisely.

What a very peculiar way to interpret roses' post durhamjen.

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4 minutes 41 seconds of your day to watch Grenfell Tower residents saying how many people they think are missing.
Or would you rather spend that time attacking me - again?

No names, by the way, just numbers.

Drama queen...

The locals can say who they think are missing, the police and other official bodies have to say who they KNOW are missing.

Okay then, ignore the residents, just like the council.
Who's a bloody drama queen, Ana?
Wash your mouth out!

Oh God save us all from Lily Allen, forever in the news for her pronouncements, the raison d'etre of the ex Bedales warbler these days seems to be that of cranking up a class war instead of assailing the public with her reedy voice, Adele she aint! In the aftermath of the 2015 General Election she tweeted something along the lines of "don't want to stay in this Fascist country anymore" strangely she's still here was rather hoping she might have de camped to a country where she finds the brand of socialism more acceptable to her such as Cuba or Venezuala.

In the meantime, her speculations of a cover up regarding how many died in Grenfell Tower is hardly helpful, certainly not to those who may still be hoping their loved ones are still alive. I believe a Syrian family thought to have perished have now turned up safe and well which is one small piece of good news amid this awful tragedy.

Wash your mouth out!

Don't be so silly...how old are you?

Who the hair-oil is ignoring them? The media isn't. Just saying that the police will compile their own numbers, their own list, of those they know have died. They will doubtless have taken statements from everyone who has something to say, and will be collating them all along with other data.