Stubborn 3yr old Granddaughter

You can't really reason with a one year old, but you can certainly reason with a three year old. That’s how you teach them to be articulate, thinking people. It doesn’t usually stop the tantrums, but it should be done. Something goes in.

Jane10:

After a while I just casually suggested that he might like to see the cat and he was sufficiently distracted that the situation moved on.

Exactly. You need to de-escalate conflicts and avoid where possible. It used to frustrate me like mad to see my son engaging in pointless and unnecessary battles with 2 y o DGS, but nothing I (unwisely) said made any difference. Maybe I should have asked my son if he wanted to see the cat!!!!

I have a three old GD who has temper tantrums too. I'm waiting for her to grow out of it. Isn't it par for the course at three?

This is part of the "terrible twos" which go on much longer than 2 years old. The tantrums are simply frustration but it is no good whatsoever reasoning with a child having a tantrum. Best to just ignore. Sometimes the strength of their feelings gets the better of them . Best to walk away and make sure they can't harm themselves . Then when it is all over give them hugs and talk quietly to them while doing so.

It's so much easier, I find, to be the grandparents than the parents, especially if the 2 -3 year old is a first baby. Explaining why something can't happen is one thing but attempting to reason and rationalise with a tantruming little one is a waste of energy and counter productive.
Distraction is a great tool.

Great advice here. I fully agree with Madgran77 and also with the advice not to interfere (I'm still trying and mostly failing with that one). Perhaps if you go to a library together you could 'happen' to find a book on toddler temper tantrums as there are some really good ones around, or suggest buying one if asked. Then the advice comes from a third party not from you. My own DC tended not to have tantrums so much as find devious ways to get their own way, eg sneaking the (small) toy they wanted out of Tesco under their coat - still no idea how!

It’s called Mindful Parenting. Gentle discipline. My grandson used to try and kill his brother, hitting, tripping, suffocating and my DIL would say gentle hands xxxx. Because to say don’t do that is negative and is detrimental apparently. This is all over the internet and what middle class parenting is all about.

Oh stella1949 you and me both!

I also have a dgs aged 3yrs. And is prone to the odd tantrum, especially with his mum.

He went through the separation anxiety phase whenever she left the room, so when looking after him, I was usually subjected to approx 20mins plus of crying and screaming.

No amount of cuddling or consoling had any effect, so I just had to leave him to cry himself out. Afterwards there was lots of cuddles, but the state they get themselves into is amazing.
Fortunately, they are not so frequent now, but he seems to play his mum us something chronic at times.
She also cannot console him in that state and has to walk away.

I can’t stand this business if trying to reason with a 3year old either. They don’t need explanations, they need guidance and instruction.

I came across this a while ago, and sent it to my daughter. It's a very good insight into how little children must feel about their lives. It's rather long, but well worth reading. Perhaps passing it on to your GCs parents might help, too.

“I am 2. I am not terrible…I am frustrated. I am nervous, stressed out, overwhelmed, and confused. I need a hug.”

From the diary of a 2-year-old:

Today I woke up and wanted to get dressed by myself but was told “No, we don’t have time, let me do it.”

This made me sad.

I wanted to feed myself for breakfast but was told,
“No, you’re too messy, let me do it for you.”

This made me feel frustrated.

I wanted to walk to the car and get in on my own but was told, “No, we need to get going, we don’t have time. Let me do it.”

This made me cry.

I wanted to get out of the car on my own but was told “No, we don’t have time, let me do it.”

This made me want to run away.

Later I wanted to play with blocks but was told “no, not like that, like this…”

I decided I didn’t want to play with blocks anymore. I wanted to play with a doll that someone else had, so I took it. I was told “No, don’t do that! You have to share.”

I’m not sure what I did, but it made me sad. So I cried. I wanted a hug but was told “No, you’re fine, go play”.

I’m being told it’s time to pick up. I know this because someone keeps saying, “Go pick up your toys.”

I am not sure what to do, I am waiting for someone to show me.

“What are you doing? Why are you just standing there? Pick up your toys, now!”

I was not allowed to dress myself or move my own body to get to where I needed to go, but now I am being asked to pick things up.

I’m not sure what to do. Is someone supposed to show me how to do this? Where do I start? Where do these things go? I am hearing a lot of words but I do not understand what is being asked of me. I am scared and do not move.

I lay down on the floor and cry.

When it was time to eat I wanted to get my own food but was told “no, you’re too little. Let me do it.”

This made me feel small. I tried to eat the food in front of me but I did not put it there and someone keeps saying “Here, try this, eat this…” and putting things in my face.

I didn’t want to eat anymore. This made me want to throw things and cry.

I can’t get down from the table because no one will let me…because I’m too small and I can’t. They keep saying I have to take a bite. This makes me cry more. I’m hungry and frustrated and sad. I’m tired and I need someone to hold me. I do not feel safe or in control. This makes me scared. I cry even more.

I am 2. No one will let me dress myself, no one will let me move my own body where it needs to go, no one will let me attend to my own needs.

However, I am expected to know how to share, “listen”, or “wait a minute”. I am expected to know what to say and how to act or handle my emotions. I am expected to sit still or know that if I throw something it might break….But, I do NOT know these things.

I am not allowed to practice my skills of walking, pushing, pulling, zipping, buttoning, pouring, serving, climbing, running, throwing or doing things that I know I can do. Things that interest me and make me curious, these are the things I am NOT allowed to do.

I am 2. I am not terrible…I am frustrated. I am nervous, stressed out, overwhelmed, and confused. I need a hug.

I agree, pick your battles. And if you can walk away. Distraction has always worked with my children and grandchildren, eg. " what is that I can see flying in the sky!! What is it, the color looks amazing? Can you see that? As I rush to the window. Usually problem over and child is beside me gazing out the window trying to see whatever it was. Just one example, there are lots in my arsenal. Also one of my sons had a full on temper tantrum at aged 3 in a big store, I just walked away and left him to it. I hid behind some clothes until it all finished and then casually walked past and said, "Did you have fun?" and ignored it. Didn't do it much after that. Its just a phase.

I have been closely involved with all my GC since their birth. With No1 my daughter stated that she wasn't going to be seen as the 'bad' parent all the time and if I saw them misbehaving I was to correct them. Up to that point I had 'kept my distance'! Of them all GD 4of4 is determined to have her own way at all times. If I tell her 'No' she screams, then cries, then states "I will". I don't argue, I just reinforce the 'No' and we have a full blown screaming, crying pretend temper tantrum. All for my benefit I might add, it doesn't work with her parents.
If that tantrum doesn't work she will say "Why can't I have .....?, you let .....!"
My reply 'I said No!' ends in a chant I want, I'm hungry, etc.
When that fails she screams, growls at me and goes to find her brothers, who give in!
She learnt very early to manipulate her brothers and it still works today, she's 6 1/2 and they are 16 & 12!
GD 3of4, is no nonsense, straight out stubborn immovable and no amount of talking, bribing, removal of gadgets, loss of tv, computer time etc has any effect. She will stomp upstairs, read a book, even go to sleep, then come downstairs and carry on as normal, often doing what was asked previously, without a word! That battle you lose, every single time!
Pick your battles, maybe have a discussion with your daughter about discipline of children when you are chatting over coffee, no GCs around and see what her thoughts are, explain your views calmly and see where the conversation leads.

Me too!

It’s always very difficult to offer family advice because we all have very different relationships with all of our AC, plus the dynamics do change with some DIL/SIL’s. Personally I have been lucky to be able to speak very openly with my own 3 and their partners. I will say what I think just once, and like all advice, it can be given but does not have to be taken. None have ever taken offence as they know if something’s in my head it has to come out ! And they know that everything I do is out of loving and caring, not interfering or criticising. I do think that some parents do need to ask themselves who is in charge, them or their child. And I say this because I have seen many families struggle with older children who have never been given boundaries.

By giving away to her in the end they are reinforcing the behaviour and she has learnt that is how she gets her own way. If they don’t intend to stick to their guns it simply isn’t worth the upset and stress of enduring the tantrum. We didn’t have a lot of rules, just a few concerning safety and behaviour but our boys knew that when we said no we meant it. When they were older we would explain why we said no. I don’t remember any tantrums just a few sulks from our eldest but he soon learnt that they were pointless.

Do agree with a lot that has been said. Reasoning seems the modern way of dealing with children these days. Like many of us, I’ve had years of dealing with young children, both my own and in Primary School. I think too much “reasoning” makes young children feel insecure and they actually appreciate the security in being told that this is what we do/what is going to happen and the adult keeps calm (often hard!) and is ready with the cuddles!
One of my daughters is still doing far too much explaining and reasoning with her sons of 9 and 11! The older one obviously accepts that this is how Mum is and keeps quiet! The younger one - a feisty character still fights all the way.
I button my lip!!

I have a grandson who, when he was three was just like this. He's now about to go to University to study Law. I recently bought him a t shirt which reads 'I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.' Sums him up perfectly!

all those tv programmes from nannys who can turn around kids from hell in a matter of weeks leave me with dropped jaw. Calmness is the most important virtue but difficult to ride out the storm. As many have said these years are very frightening to the child who cannot check their rage - part of growing up. See this and send in a quiet moment after a gentle chat with DD after particularly difficult episode www.supernanny.co.uk/TV-Show.aspx/ programmes Good luck and try and keep silent let the Nanny clips do your work for you !

Dear grans, I am currently at home heavily pregnant with a two year old and three year old.

You have no idea how badly I needed to hear that they will grow out of this stage, thank you all ?

Popalina How I sympathise! Plus thousands if not millions of other Grandmothers, I think! This is such a common problem today.
I have seen it most often among parents where the mother works and so sees her children for less time than a full time mother. She does not want the precious time with her children to be marred by being strict and telling them off.
I have seen many cases where the child behaves in school or nursery school, with the Nanny and the Granny but plays up with the mother.
It is true, giving all the reasons for behaving well is all well and good, but in the end, the authority must lie with the parent to say "no" and mean it. Your DD has to show her little girl that the boundaries are set out by her and firmly maintained by her. It is the most loving thing she can do because this is how a child learns to feel secure.

Non of your business, walk away

muffinthemoo - I can sympathise with what life for you must be like at the moment having just returned from visit with 2 and 3 year old grandchildren- older one particularly prone to tantrums! I had my own 3rd child when eldest was only 3 - and survived to have 2 more, so they do grow up and out of that phase - mostly. ?.

Do let us know when your baby arrives- if you get a chance. I read your posts with interest as you always seem to have good advice and insights on the complexity of relationships.

My granddaughter had the worst temper tantrums ever at that age. The situation was not helped by her being visually impaired and autistic. When she started screaming and thrashing around on the floor, my husband did it too. She was so shocked at seeing him like that, she stopped instantly. It only took a few times to cure her rages.

My 3 year old GD when put on the naughty step said “Weh heh I love the naughty step” and then refused to come off it!

If people ask for advice then you should always tell the truth or what's the point! Unruly toddlers who always get their own way often lead to uncontrollable, selfish teenagers. Lucky girl is spot on with her advice. The best tip I ever heard when a child is having a tantrum was, 'remove the audience'.