Michael Jackson

I'm not getting embroiled in the " coloured" thing but I think we can safely say "full blooded negro" is best consigned to the past.

They were probably absolutely terrified while he was alive. He threatened them and their families.

In the end it does seem that if someone has a strange and unconventional way of life there may be more unconventional things that are hidden and they may not just be a harmless eccentric.

I haven't watched all the documentary but what struck me was the boy who was ten who appeared in the Pepsi ad and danced on stage with him. There was footage of him always in the car with MJ ,on planes etc and yet no one thought that was strange. Did these boys not have school to go to either? It's different times we live in now, I'm not saying it couldn't happen again but he was grooming those boys in plain sight of the press, etc. Yes I agree that the patents were groomed too and blinded by the wealth and extravagance and the fact that someone like MJ wanted to be friends with them. It so sad. I worry what kind of life his children really had there is no way it could be normal.

White mother. May not be genetically his children. I think despite his fame and wealth he had a bad childhood and psychological problems. I don’t know what to make of the current allegations, certainly not normal for a grown man to sleep in the same bed as other people’s children!

Goodness HannahLoisLuke, how much has to be said/done/shown to convince you? I'm shocked.
With people like you around, no wonder victims never want to come forward.
As BlueBelle says, "I truly hope no one can see those two family men and not believe every word they said."

These documenteries show us how active pedophile aggression impacts upon not only the child, and the adult that the child becomes, but also the parents of the victim, and his brothers, sisters, and spouse.

The delusion of adoration towards celebrities must stop, and children be forewarned not to be deluded about celebrity .

Of course they would give their lives sooner than ‘tell’ on him he had bought them with his ‘kindness’ his presents holidays, his playtime, his undivided attention they felt so special he’d even bought one set of parents a house, He was not a frightening abuser he did it all gently bit by bit with love care and attention, he groomed them from the age of 7 when a baby doesn’t even know what sex is

Why did they only now come forward? for ten years I worked with survivors of childhood abuse the time they nearly all came for help and to disclose often for the very first time was when they had children of their own that reached the age they were when they were first abused, it happened time after time Their child was them and they were terrified
I truly hope no one can see those two family men and not believe every word they said

Some people feel that they know famous people that they admire, especially younger people. I was like it myself with my idols The Beatles. It's only as you get older that you realise that of course you haven't a clue about them. You see what they want you to see. They are putting on a show, which is why it's called show business.

Well said Oodles.

I know someone who was sexually abused and it is very hard for her as an adult. One of the abusers is now dead, she read the obituaries in the local.papers so she knew that he was gone. To be able to speak out about it is. Very hard, some people just can't face doing it you have to relive that horrible experience. Some people need to get to a certain point before they speak out about it. And if someone told you that you'd go to prison if you told the truth what child wouldn't lie
I missed the bit about non disclosure agreements, which I guess explains the staff. But how can it be legal to stop someone reporting a crime, I don't understand that

I watched both episodes, a long, painful watch and I'm still not entirely sure either way. I had also recently rewatched an older documentary about MJ where it focused on his lost childhood and how he loved to try creating a magical childhood and mixing with children. I'd felt sorry for him then, he seemed quite an innocent.
Very different view of him now, but still not 100% sure of his guilt.
The two men talked about why they testified for him back then and both still say they love him, that he was kind and loving and they idolised him, but that he sexually abused them.
We'll probably never really know.

It seemed to me that the abuse was possible only because of MJ's enormous fame. He was a bright star of the music world and had been for a long time. You cannot underestimate the way ordinary people fawn over famous people.
After all look at the all the people who "love" the royals and P.Harry.......for what reason? Just that they are famous.
The mother's were stupid to be taken in but at the same time everyone saw MJ as a shining star and they were naive.

I don't think the two men are speaking up for the money after seeing them talk. They looked so sad. And why now? I believe them when they say it is because it took becoming fathers themselves to young boys to understand the evil that had taken place before.
One of them said that he had loved MJ so much he would have done anything MJ asked including lying in court....as both the boys did. And they were boys back then , not men.

Totally agree MOnica

Gizmogranny, these accusations did not just comeo out after he was dead. Read CarlyD7's post, 2 posts above yours.

I have never had any interest in Michael Jackson or his music, all just noise to me, but even I was aware of the persistent rumours and very dangerous behaviours he indulged in and can remember wondering what on earth these boy's parents though they were doing.

Other people have used MJ's abusive childhood as an excuse for his behaviour. But nothing excuses paedophilia. From all I hear he was an intelligent man, he knew what he was doing was wrong. He should have sought help, those round him should have encouraged him to seek help or shopped him.

No. I haven't and don't plan to watch the docu.
I like the music which is a separate thing together.

I had no intention of watching the films but when my TV came on the program was on and I was captivated by how compelling the men talking were.
I had never thought it was true that MJ was an abuser until I listened and watched the men tell their story. I believe both of them.
It was when they became fathers to their sons that the repressed reality of what had happened really hit them. And that they had lied before to protect MJ. Also that he had scared them by telling them that if people found out what they did together they would both go to prison forever.
In the part of the film I haven't seen MJ apparently also twisted their young minds against their own mothers.
Now I believe that no matter how terrible his own childhood had been, he was a monster and he has damaged other young people for his own deviant sexual urges. Not nice.
Those two men were not lying. Their pain was evident in their faces, expressions and voices. They were dancers, not actors and they were just so young. I believe one of them was just 7 years old when the abuse began. so sad.

I did like MJ when he was young but in later years he seemed to think he was some kind of Saviour, I remember Jarvis Cocker being really annoyed at one time by MJ's posturing. MJ wanted to save the children and ironically he was the monster they needed saving from.

They were children when the first testified and MJ told them they would both go to jail for life if they told the truth. They loved and believed him, so of course they lied. I thought he was a brilliant artist and bought his LP"s back in the day, but listening to those men I have absolutely no doubt they are telling the truth.

To all those people who say MJ is innocent - would you let your young grandson stay overnight in MJ's bedroom, and if not, why not if you believe he is innocent?

OK - I was a massive MJ fan & saw him live many times. I find it hard to believe all these accusations although I know he was probably a very damaged albeit gentle soul due to the way his father treated all the family.
If you are brought up in such a dis-functional family with a bully & sexual pervert for a father then you are going to be damaged. This is not condoning anything but I can see the reasons why he was not 'normal'.
A very sad case but I am not totally convinced by the stories these men are telling now. I suspect making money is behind it all.
Very sad all round.

Nailed it MissA

Looking back, we regularly saw MJ on TV holding hands with, and posing for photos with these boys. I for one never thought anything of it really, just accepted the 'he likes being with children as he didn't have a childhood' line. We can be hoodwinked just because they are famous.

I watched both patrs of the Leaving Neverland documentary, and i certainly believe he was paedophile,,i also watched a video of the 2 boys interview with Oprah Winfrey after the Doc. was seen, the maker of it was also their ,i wanted to cry after seeing it, neither of the boys [men now] have forgiven their mother, and are still working on it, but it seems it really hit them when they had their own children
I believe them, and cant understand why anyone can not see that his friendship with these boys and others was in any way normal, and sleeping in his bed
Just because others say he didnt abuse them doesnt mean he didnt abuse these two, most paedos dont abuse every child they are in contact with,
Apparently 11 more have come forward
These men were not paid for their part in this doc.and i believe what they say happened,
Some people are blind even to facts. sleeping with children as an adult man is never right in itself
Would anyone on here who doesnt believe this really let their children sleep with a grown man comfortably, and without any qualms, i doubt it

Paddyann "these two men" were small boys when they testified for him. Both if them had been groomed by a manipulative paedophile.

Regardless of MJ lifestyle I will continue to enjoy his music. He used a surrogate to have children. If she was white then this could be the reason his children are white Another reason may be they were adopted and not biologically his .

Because Michael told him he had done it, according to what he said in the documentary.