Boris..intensive care..

chestnut a cordon sanitiarewas place around Wuhan and Hubei Provence. Because of Chinese New Year seeding took place throughout. China and the rest of the world.

Graded self quarantine was imposed through the entirety of China Because of this strict lockdown and Chinese compliance, transmission has gradually faded away. Not one death was recorded yesterday.

Give the facts, and the circumstances, it is clear that it would be totally impossible to contain the virus. Firstly China was in the middle of the seasonal flu period, and respiratory disease is not uncommon then, and secondly because of the way the local government is organised and controlled, it was inevitable imo that this was going to happen.

I’m so sorry to hear that tickingbird. My sister was also recently removed from life support. It is a very difficult time for a family?

Whitewavemark2 - so you're saying that China can be excused for letting the genie out of the bottle because of various reasons including Chinese New Year. It was just too difficult to do the right thing. Well then, I suppose we should forgive them for infecting the whole planet and bringing down every economy on earth.

Eglantine21 it doesn't Say anyone said “No” to anyone.
I think you may have misread something.

I was only trying to clear up the idea that ventilators were not available!
I think if you want the minutiae of the situation maybe contact Harry and ask him rather than say “it was not like that”.

I was not defending or decrying anything- just putting the available info out there.

I really wish him well. He didn't look well when he was on tv recently.

I haven't read the whole thread but I think they are doing a 'clap for Boris' at 8pm tonight (Tuesday). Whatever your politics, he is the leader of our country and every country needs a leader.

If the hospital said they had put DNR on him without discussion or agreement there has to be a reason for this.

It is the standard pathway for all CV admissions.
Decisions are made (and reviewed daily) whether or not someone would be a ventillation/resuscitation candidate IF they deteriorate. It is made in advance so that staff can act quickly if it happens. They are not waiting until family can be reached but family are being informed as soon as possible.

This is the standard covid care you get whether you are the PM or joe blogs or someone with DS

It is actually "best practice" anyway. Whether or not care would be "escalated" if needed should be planned for all patients, but too often these decisions are made too late or at the last minute.

Hospitals are actively avoiding these scenarios and making sure the decisions are made before people are gasping for their last breath. So that either ITU or symptom relief/palliative care can be in place in a timely manner

I am not clapping for Boris Johnson!

craftone I meant hopefully it was not by a ventilator. Draw your horns in.

Covid aside, a DNR is a medical decision. You cant actually decline a DNR if drs decide not to offer it as a treatment option.

You can chose to decline to BE rescusitated

But you cant demand to be if its not medically indicated.

Same as you cant demand open heart surgery or any other invasive medical proceedure that your Drs dont think will work on you.

Thank you notanan This man has stated that his brother’s life was expendable because he wasn’t economically viable or words to that effect. Either way it is no excuse to be using his death to continue his lefty rantings.

Eglantine Thank you for your kind words and my flowers. Bless you x

My neighbours family tried really, really hard to get the dnr removed from his records, but it stood, because his health was so very poor.

And how about those who are dying at home? Many of these from Corvid-like symptoms, untested and untreated. Like Harry from Nottingham their relatives might want an explanation.

I think its silly to clap. I'm sure Boris would think so too.

I'm not sure how many are dying at home.

Not having invasive procedures doesn't mean you have to stay home.

Thank you notanan This man has stated that his brother’s life was expendable because he wasn’t economically viable

Does it seem likely that front line doctors would have the time or the will right now to consider such a thing?

Unfortunately DS brings with it an increased risk of heart problems, diabetes, challenging airways etc..
All of these co morbidities need to be considered for anyone, DS or no. As well as how far organ failure has progressed. Someone who is in kidney heart AND breathing failure with CV is going to have different decisions made about them than someone who just need more oxygen than they can get on a ward

I haven't read the whole thread but I think they are doing a 'clap for Boris' at 8pm tonight (Tuesday). Whatever your politics, he is the leader of our country and every country needs a leader.

Would you have clapped for Corbyn had the GE gone the other way?

Organ failure sadly happens when anyone is admitted into ICU so naturally decisions about DNR are dependent on age.

MissA certainly many deaths in Care Homes. Don’t understand your second sentence.

Agree, very silly to clap

Along with the decision to slap a DNR on him without any discussion, much less agreement, with anyone. A cynic might wonder if that was the case because he had Downs Syndrome and was ‘economically inactive
Like so many stories, the amount of detail we are given seems to change as we go along.
1) the brother did not die because there were too few ventilators
2) if the brother was never going to be ventilated, this was a medical decision, nothing to do with politics
3) the author of the article suggests this was because, having Downs Syndrome, the brother was not regarded as “economically inactive”

This is a whole new area- if a hospital department has decided to place a DNR notice on a patient because of Downs, we are looking at something else.
A DNR is a hard thing for the rest of us to stomach. But when Paw signed his it was clear to both of us that medical intervention in the event of e.g.cardiac arrest would be more than he could survive . That did not preclude an induced coma when the time came to enable further surgical intervention to investigate or repair the source of a massive internal bleeding.
He was on life support for 24 hours to enable an accurate assessment of multiple organ failure , to allow us to be with him at the end and the breathing tube was the last thing to be removed when his heart finally failed in order to save him distress.

Being ventilated can gain time for the organs to fight back but it is not a cure.
If a patient will not benefit from intubation, there is no point in using resources which could benefit another patient.
As this is a major decision, it is not left up to nurses as somebody somewhere suggested, but by senior doctors at least 2, it used to be referred to as the Three Wise Men protocol.
So this is a much more complex issue than first presented, but the bottom line is that it has nothing whatsoever to do with Boris Johnson or politics and as such does not belong in this context.

In this situation yes

I am not clapping for Boris Johnson!

Good Lord trisher is that what is being suggested? The man was no saint and being ill has not made him one. Please don't let the clapping for the NHS be mixed up with a politician doing his job and then becoming ill.