90 Years on Benefits

Hetty58
Oh my gosh! I remember those people. I'd completely forgotten that I'd taught a few YOPS courses way back when.
You're absolutely right. There will always be a borderline cohort that is simply unemployable. Not through anyone's fault. But just because they just don't have the capacity - physical, mental, intellectual, with resulting/concomitant poor life choices/ pressure of circumstances.

Every gvt factors this cohort into their budgeting, yet many of these people who are in this fuzzy borderline between indisputably unemployable and 'well, they seem ok' are amongst those who get vilified for being scroungers. Few of us would actually employ them ourselves because their incapabilities would be very clear to us.

But none of that negates the fact that, no matter how they articulate and present themselves, they're overwhelmingly decent people who do have meaningful aspirations and ambitions that sadly will never be realised.

That's ok CherryCezzy None needed but generous of you to offer one.
I read it as you offering a comparison which is indeed what you confirm. ?

GGmark3
I don't understand why you are saying the OP is unpleasant.... Firstly you did not see the program and secondly the OP didn't make it.She merely watched it as did l. She was asking for a discussion on our opinions. There is nothing wrong with saying she had reservations.

I saw the program.It featured three claimants. It showed two people who clearly needed the extra disability payments and a third couple who had been informed that their disability payments were being discontinued. It was only the extra payment that was being stopped. The third couple had not worked for 70 years between them. They looked to be in their fifties. She had diabetes and agriaphobia ( can't spell that) but that did not stop her from going to bingo and down to the DHS offices to complain. She was also planning her trip to the Court Tribunal as they were appealing the decision . Annoyingly did not show the outcome .Her patner ( the carer) had recently been diagnosed with COPD... manageable and not yet at a severe stage. He had been claiming a carers allowance which had also been stopped. The program was factual and followed the difficulties that a younger woman had in sorting out her claim.It certainly did not present the first two claimants as scroungers. Katek was asking what our opinions were of anyone who had seen the program so it is difficult for other posters to answer if they had'nt . IMO....l think the first two claimants undoubtedly deserved their disability payments and any other help they could be given.They are genuinely disabled. I think the DHS made the correct decision as regards to the third couple. The program highlighted the difficulties in claiming especially if you live alone .

You may well be right GracesGranMK3, personally I found it becoming confrontational.

How sad that this discussion has ended up with unpleasantness. Only yesterday there was a post about how unpleasant a Gran had found GN

It didn't end up as unpleasant Evie64, it started as unpleasant, the opening post was "unpleasant" as are some of the comments about people nobody knows or the stories of others no one can check.

What may be worth considering is that we do not all see the same things as unpleasant.

How sad that this discussion has ended up with unpleasantness. Only yesterday there was a post about how unpleasant a Gran had found GN

You and I may disagree but be assured, I will never stoop to questioning the veracity of any comment you make nor will I seek to derive satisfaction from rebutting your fancies about my previous employments.

I did not say you lied so please don't accuse me of something that is completely untrue. Strangely enough, I do not follow each and every post you make. Would you suggest anyone else saying it was an interesting shift - it was - was calling you a liar. I rather think you make just as many nasty comments as anyone on here - usually about those who have no way to reply.

It’s called On Benefits: 90 Years Claiming. I saw it on 5Star which is a Sky channel, but it may be available on other channels. Will have a look.

Could somebody tell me what the name of the programme was? I’ve looked on 5*, and can’t find it. It’s the My5 app I’m using.

Newnanny that programme you saw wa the same one I watched . They were all extremely short staffed and I think a few were on UC themselves, just working there a few hours. The Minister for Pensions made a visit and the staff shortages across the country were highlighted to him. I think he gave them just few more staff as a token.

Oh sorry - That was to GabriellaG

I hope you don't think when I referred the poster to student nurse"s pay in the 1980s I was implying that you were lying. I wasn't. I didn't realise the poster/s were implying you were being untruthful. Please accept my apology. Naive to these kind of threads I guess.
There's a huge difference between 1962 and 1985. A period of over 20 years being one and rampant inflation in the 1970s being another.

newnanny it’s been a long time since getting sickness benefits simply relied on a doctor signing a sick note.

GGMK3 Don’t call me rude. You are too quick to jump in with your insults and condescending remarks and react badly when challenged. You implied Gabriella was lying - fact.

'Dodgers'

A nearby taxi driver is pleasant enough to chat to - but always braggs loudly about how little tax he pays. He looks down upon the honest 'fools' who pay their dues.

When the 80% was promised to the employed, he complained (loudly again) 'What about us, the self--employed? What will we get?'

I must admit I was secretly rejoicing when I replied 'Don't worry, I'm sure they'll base it on your last year's tax return' He didn't look too happy!

'Scroungers'?

I have taught literacy (along with CV creation, interview and job application skills) to the long term unemployed.

They were sent by the Jobcentre and had to attend - or lose benefits. My class were not lazy, not 'scroungers'.

They were ordinary decent people with various disadvantages - through no fault of their own.

Some had mild to moderate learning disabilities, others mental health problems or personality disorders.

It was plainly obvious that most would never be able to get a job. Some were volunteers, some stayed at home looking after children, some cared for others. Quite a few were in poor health.

Incredibly, all had been declared 'fit for work'.

It's such a shame that those of you who resent those claiming benefits will never meet them. They were all good people.

GracesGranMK3
I wonder who I look down on ?
Only those shorter than I ? otherwise no.
Now, how about easing off the digging and find someone else to stick your pins in. It would be a miracle if you ever agreed with me or said anything nice, and I make plenty of nice comments but you never look for those.
You and I may disagree but be assured, I will never stoop to questioning the veracity of any comment you make nor will I seek to derive satisfaction from rebutting your fancies about my previous employments.
I think this has strayed too far from the OP so I will not be drawn further.

GrannyIggle
No. I certainly do not look too kindly at all on those who get into power so you can forget that angle.
I'm only interested in the results of their machinations. Deeds not words. Words are cheap.

Always trying to find fault...I wonder why?

Not always. Only when I comment on your disdain of others.

GGK3 It’s got to something when you imply another member is a liar! I’m sure Gabriella doesn’t need to bend the truth to make her point although I’m sure some do.

It also comes to something when you talk to me like that tickingbird. It appears my memory serves me right and it was an "interesting shift." Perhaps you've forgotten more than others remember but you don't need to be so rude because you lack the memory. I called no one a liar.

I have absolutely no doubt there are many people who would be entitled to pension credit but either are too proud to claim it or otherwise do not know how much you can have and still be able to claim it.

There are others who know exactly how to claim the most benefits possible and how some doctors can sign to say a person is to sick to work, when they clearly are not is beyond me. There are those who claim what they are not entitled to and then there is less in the pot for those who genuinely need support.

I did not see that programme KatieK but I did see two programmes about Universal Credit about six weeks ago. 1 man had not worked for 10 years and he had had his benefit stopped twice in the past. They made him go to job centre every day and sit there in front of computer from 9am until 5pm every day until he got a job. They said they would stop his benefit if he did not go every day. He was going mad and kept complaining. He did find a job cleaning trains. He smartened up and was still working 3 months later.

Another lady had to give her job as a nurse to look after her Mother. After her Mum died she was a bit depressed and went to job centre to find another job. She did not want to go back to nursing. She could not live on her Universal credit she found a pt job cleaning a pub and they topped her money up with UC. She found another cleaning job in an office and so was doing 2 jobs but total hours was about 24 each week. Job centre was trying to make her get a third job to make up hours.

Another lady, who did not seem too bright, got an advance of her UC and spent it all in a week. She bought a new phone, trainers, clothes, cigarettes and other things. Then she was upset because she had to pay back some of this advance every month. She kept spending all her money in first 2 weeks then getting upset as she had none left and she had a daughter and they had to go to food back. The daughter seemed more sensible than the mother.

I think they ought to give education about how to budget at school in PHSE as the third lady clearly had no idea. I don't think the people at the benefits job centre made it easy for anyone not working. This was filmed when Amber Rudd was in charge of Dept of W and P.

GabriellaG54
Do governments deliberately make it hard for the most disadvantaged to receive benefits?

I would say yes, they do. It may be that you're looking too kindly on those that get into power?

One example I know about from a disability support worker is the disabled allowance. Only 20% of first applications would be awarded the benefit. When the failed claims went to appeal, 80+% of those applications were awarded.

That says to me that someone, somewhere deliberately and systematically made the initial hurdles hard.

Then there's the application forms themselves. A huge amount of paperwork and all using special terms. You have to know the way the disability benefits people use language to know how to fill them in. Well over the heads of many claimants.

Such confusion amongst claimants that a whole training
and support industry sprang up: support workers actually went on training courses (and refreshers about new regs etc) to learn how to fill in these forms correctly on behalf of claimants! Perhaps they still do, I'll have to check with my friend the support worker.

That has to be deliberate. In face, it was widely assumed amongst support workers that it was deliberate.

I'm not sure that the architects of these very difficult application systems actually think about the claimant, still less do they enjoy causing suffering. I just think they're obsessed with their party's manifesto pledges and, 'saving taxpayers' money' so the Daily Mail and The Sun can print glowing stories about them 'saving money'.

Thing is, it's all a false economy. People who don't get the benefits they are due get ill, they have to visit doctors more, they have to have more hospital treatment. Then they have to have the support of support workers ....who are paid for by...the taxpayer!!

My first job at age 15/16 (apart for the various Saturday jobs I had from the age of 13) was for the Ministry of Housing and Local Government in Westminster later to become Dept of the Environment. My wage was £8 17s 6d and I thought I was rich!