will OAP's loosing out??

Bills are naturally paid with savings----which don't last forever. I don't know how long I'm going to live, nor does anyone, but I pay my way like everyone else does.

Saggi, because I don't do all the things that you do, I wouldn't begrudge you or anyone like you, a bus pass but because I've never ventured far since a TIA I use a taxi. This is why I'm not bothered about a bus pass. Or my D when she's not working.

Jans3, no, my feet are firmly on the ground, thankyou !

Just to reiterate, I did have an idyllic life when my H was alive as do those who are still fortunate in having their husbands/partners and where there is always a supply of extra finance. I was using savings to pay bills !!

To those who are blinkered, one person working and trying to keep a home---which has to be kept up to standard because it was listed, is no mean task and I worked damned hard at the hospital to sustain/ maintain it.

Canklekitten, I don't go on holiday or own a car do you ??

Aren’t you the lucky one Ellan.... we don’t own a car , as we can’t afford one! My husband is unable to walk further than the bathroom ... I have the ‘load’ on my shoulders ...which by the way I broke( both) along with my jaw, after being knocked of my bike in January . The person didn’t stop! I have to carry every ounce if shopping I buy . No help. I can’t use my bike and my bus pass is my life line..and when my grandkids go back to school it’s my transport to them ...helping my recently estranged daughter with them ..taking and fetching to school. Cooking their teas till there mum gets home. That’s four buses.. three days a week! When I lost my pass couple years ago, it cost me £15 per week to ‘help’ my daughter out. If you don’t need your pass....many do!!

You EV are living in cuckooland from your ivory tower

Yes the OAP's that's me included will lose a lot, TV license that should be abolished. Taxes will go up and interest rates will continue to plummet. I have only been retired for 1 year and the future looks very bleak savings will be eaten into. Furlough scheme was a good idea but has been abused by thousands of people especially the non tax paying billionaires

Should have typed "there" not "their" but I am just so mad!

I hope we do not have to suffer any financial cuts at all. The way the elderly have been sacrificed in the UK is a national disgrace and I hope there is a criminal investigation into the way people in care homes have been treated. My best friend wasn't even elderly, aged 56, rushed out of hospital after an op to recover in a nursing home, where she developed sepsis and died. If she'd have been left where she was, she may still be alive. I hope their are tax rises for the wealthy and catch companies that avoid paying their fair share.

If the bus pass for OAPs goes, the bus companies will shut down (outside of LONDON) in very short order. Absolutely NO-ONE should have to choose between eating and heating.

Whilst I DO accept that everyone will have to pay for this pandemic financially, freezing pensions and killing off the old by neglect whilst shutting down the bus networks cannot possibly make any sense, even to Dominic Cummings

I agree. We are reasonably comfortable thank god but there are lots who are not.

When I was working and paying superannuation every month it was NOT taxable at the time - which is why tax is levied now when it is paid as a pension.

I agree with you when we think are life is going to be easier bang it's not and even with the government coronavirous lockdown does he ever mention us no its like hes saying your not having anything anymore and we don't care about you so just do as your told

EllanVannin

People with your attitude make me sick. Look outside of your comfy little bubble and see how the majority of oaps live!!

It sounds like you're financially very secure EV and thats very nice for you I'm sure. But not everyone is in the same position as you, for a whole gamut of reasons, and they have only their state retirement pension to live on. This doesn't necessarily mean that they were frivolous or careless during their working years, it simply means that they had different/fewer opportunities than you had. So, whilst you're in the bittersweet position of having life with money please remember that we're not all as fortunate as you and some of us, without the winter fuel allowance, really wouldn't be able to heat our homes adequately in the winter at all.

My father drummed into me, in the 50's never to accept "charity". He used to be incensed about those who collected National( public ) Assistance as it was back then. He called it charity.

Years later before my H died, he used to tell me to " claw back " whatever I could from the government after paying extortionate death duties on 3 members of the family which gave him nightmares in those days saying that they'd paid tax all their lives in business then fleeced again after death.

I was left, a pretty confused person with these " orders " but pride won in the end and so worked for what I have but I could easily have carried out what my H had told me to do sharing his bitterness at the unfairness of it all.

At the time I was living in a high maintenance Grade II listed building on the sea front, with high council tax and managed to stay there for another 15 years after H's death but it was draining the finances so before I was destitute it was pretty well sold overnight, being sought after and it was also the end of my dream.

2 D's benefitted from the sale when properties were secured for them and I left myself enough to " see me through " whenever that might be. D in Oz invested her share to retire outside Sydney when the time comes.

Widows pension was £54 in 1994 so after only 2 weeks off I returned to work as there was no other option. Rates were £2,000 a year besides other bills, so a large chunk of savings over the years. This had been a family home since 1943 !

What would others have done ?

Offload the majority of proceeds from the sale to unburden yourself from high tax bills ? Or invest it and see your family struggling ? The former I would hope.
Life with money can be very bittersweet ! Which is why I would always help those struggling or who are under-privileged-----hence forgoing the allowances which we haven't always had have we ? So we must have managed before.

Something will have to be forfeited to help what is going to be, a struggling economy, with over 2 million out of work that we know of so far.

The heating allowance was brought in after the scandal of how many pensioners were actually dying from hypotherema - that is what happened prior to this (you did ask Ellenvan),

We have been told that to only pay these extras to those that need them would be too expensive - and in anycase is not the best way (think of the uproar that the free tv licence is now only going to those on Pensions credit).

Age Uk runs a scheme where anyone who does not need their £200 can donate it to a special fund they set up, which is used in its entirity to help older people in serious need of assistance with heating, etc. So, any of you who do not need this, please do look into that.

The £10 christmas present allowance is laughable. When it was originally brought in it represented a reasonable amount. That does need to be stopped or else brought into line with current prices.

As I have said previously, I think it wrong (and expensive) to have these extra payments. The State Pension should be brought into line with Average earnings and tied to them.

I think we should all be expected to pay. But it ought to be measured and fair.

How did we manage before the heating allowance?

Erm...... A lot of elderly people died of hypothermia?

The government should be looking at increasing the scope of both capital gains tax and inheritance tax. That is fairer than taking money that people have actualy earned, as opposed to mere asset inflation or a free gift from an estate.

Doodledog, I agree with every word you have said.

As usual the poorest will suffer more in the financial crisis after coronavirus.

I have a private pension and feel those who are living on a basic pension should be looked after and receive the extras that they need.
We don't all need the winter fuel payment as much.

Reading back, I would rephrase the first bit of my post in case it is not clear that I think that tax on income should be a lot higher, so that those who earn more are paying more into the system than at present. I think that everyone should have enough disposable income to have a decent standard of living, and to be able to pay into a pension and/or to save.

My beef is not with people who can't afford to save, but with the idea that if you have, you should not qualify for various allowances, to which others are entitled by dint of having spent their money instead. What people do with their spare money (if that have any) should be a matter of choice - I am fully aware that not everyone has enough to save at all, and I don't think that this came over in my post.

"All pensioners receive stare pension as well as a works pension" No they dont EllanVannin, for various reasons.
I have no works pension as I only ever worked part time after DD was born 32 yrs ago and it would have been a big chunk of my income.

@EllanVannin I am so glad that you are financially secure. I am also, but would never suggest that others who are not in such a favourable position make do with even less in their later years.
Society owes a debt to the older generation and the pittance received in state pension +heating bonus is a disgrace.

I agree with taxation on earnings, but totally disapprove of means testing.

I think that when people have earned money and paid tax on it (and I would increase the rate at which earnings are taxed), then it should be up to the individual how to spend or save it, without penalty. It infuriates me that people of moderate means are penalised if they want to save for something, as they can lose some of their savings in lost allowances because of means testing, and their dreams keep moving out of their reach.

Why should deciding to save their own money count against some when others are able to claim because they have spent their money instead of saving it? The unfairness of some earning so much more than others is a bit of a separate argument, but in any case, could be dealt with by fairer taxation at source.

As ever, the rich don't have to worry, as they can afford things without the need to claim, and the poor will qualify anyway.

Pensions should (IMO) go to everyone who has contributed NI, and a means-tested allowance go to those who have chosen not to work. Those who were unable to work (eg because of looking after a sick partner, or because of their own illness, or unemployment etc) should get NI credits, but those who didn't work because their partner could afford to keep them should not.

These are the only circumstances in which I approve of means-testing, because as it stands, if you can't afford not to work you are (through your NI contributions) subsidising those who can afford not to (but get given NI credits), which is topsy turvy, surely?

Obviously, nobody should do without any means of support in the sixth richest country in the world, but IMO those who opt out of paying for a pension should not be able to get one at the same rate as those who have worked, and have paid both tax and NI all their lives. If they could afford not to work, they can afford to pay for a means of support in old age. The money saved could go to older people on the lower pension, or to bring UK pensions in line with those in the rest of the 'First World'.

I also object to the idea that whether someone 'needs' an allowance or benefit should be decided by someone else. Who knows what someone else needs or does not, and who defines 'need'? Again, if someone has paid tax and NI, then IMO they should not have to prove poverty in order to be granted the same allowances as others.

There is also, IMO, an argument for encouraging everyone to use public transport (when it is safe to do so!), and I would like to see a free transport system paid for out of ring-fenced taxation. Those who choose not to use it should still pay, in lieu of a pollution tax.

(Clearly, this is something I have thought about a lot )