Thinking outside the box - a better use for our High Streets, housing, cafes, bars

Living over the shop may be alright but remember shops can change use and there aren't as many planning controls on who takes the shop as people think there are. The Council usually have little control over who comes in. If Debenhams goes in our town that is it, we have already lost BHS and M&S, what might have taken another decade has taken place overnight because of COVID.

I live in a town in a pretty affluent area. The town gets quite a few visitors, but they stay just for a couple of hours or so, maybe look at the sights, maybe have a coffee, but that's it. There are lots of cafés and restaurants, but Starbucks has closed recently, and I don't think many of them are doing very well. Lots of our shops have closed too - famous names. The independents which used to be such a feature of the town have nearly all gone too.
If the vacant buildings could be converted to housing, it may be that small shops serving those residents would become viable. I suppose the big commercial landlords would have to go broke first, otherwise rents are out of reach.

I think the demise of towns is due not only to online shopping but also to the fact that car parking is a nightmare! (That's why out of town retail parks managed to become o popular - free parking!)
Pay as you go is just a licence to print money. It limits time (and money) spent in town. (You don't have coffee and then carry on shopping with that friend you happened to bump into and you rush off back to the car park even if you would have really liked to try on that little sparkly number in John Lewis's!) and officious traffic wardens will joyfully slap a ticket on anything they can given the slightest opportunity. My daughter (a trained first aider) got a ticket once for stopping to check on people in the cars at the scene of an accident she witnessed! She had pulled up onto the pavement slightly so as not to obstruct traffic then ran the few yards along the road to the crashed vehicles - they didn't need her so she ran back only to find a traffic warden issuing a ticket - and he would not stop writing it even though he could clearly see the cars that had had the bump! - (it was over-ruled when she appealed!)
I would love to know what would happen to town centres if they made all car parking free, or subject to a nominal daily charge? (I know that in an ideal world we should all give up our cars etc etc but realistically - it's just not going to happen! How would people living in rural areas - young or old get about on the limited bus services offers and no trains etc? Oh, of course - they'd have to shop online and pay for taxi's to town for entertainment/meals and such (still the same pollution issues as is still using a car!)

I agree janipans the cost of parking in UK is prohibitive. I am always surprised on my visits there how much it costs for a limited time. Parking here in rural France is free in the main so I suppose I'm spoiled.

I lived near to a lovely vibrant French town, Villereal in Lot et Garonne, for a few years. The parking was free, the little shops thrived, the restaurants were always busy and lots of people of all ages lived above the shops in the square or the side streets leading to the main square. Parking was never a problem as people came and went. Even on market day. The evenings were quiet with French youths sitting happily chatting over coffee or a beer outside the bistros or bars. tabac. Totally different relationship with alcohol to ours.

My nearest town now is Holyhead. When we first came to live here in 1980 the high street had a small department store, a large Woolworths, Boots, banks galore, lots of clothes shops, shoe shops, craft shops, art shops, in fact there was nothing you couldn't buy in Holyhead.
Today only Boots remains among the charity shops, betting shops, a couple of banks, pubs and a few estate agents. The odd independent shop opens for a while taking advantage of available grants but none last long. The upper floors are mainly storage or shabby flats. This is a town with a busy port but continues to deteriorate.
Out of the town we have Tesco, Morrisons, Lidl, Asda, a huge new Aldi and the usual Argos, Peacocks, New Look,Wilkos, B&M, etc. The high street doesn't stand a chance.
Something has to change.

Its exactly the same in my town Peardrop50 the lack of investment is so obvious . Most shops are long gone and the Town Centre is like a ghost town.

I'm currently volunteering on a university project for the introduction of integrated housing in run down high streets. Very interesting and forward thinking. Affordable? Ah well.....

My son lives in a town on the south coast. He lives in a top floor one bedroom flat which suits him and he's happy there. The flats are on top of an estate agents. It's perfect for him as it's near to public transport as he can't afford to run a car and there is no parking available. His rent has gone up over the last two years and if this happens again next year he will no longer be able to afford to live there. This will impact his whole life. Talking to the estate agents people are leaving the town now to live further out in the countryside in case there is a second severe Covid 19 outbreak. I suspect this is true in a number of areas and will impact the larger towns and cities. So many lovely buildings just left empty, where he lives, M&S, Beales and a number of other stores have all gone.

This is now planning policy in New Zealand I believe, to bring life to town centres.

Something odd, unusual but welcome, is happening in our town.

Just before lockdown there was a real upsurge in demand for greener shopping. Three new small shops opened. They were scattered around the town but still all within half a mile of each other. They sold homemade bread, cakes, biscuits etc,. a small supply of fresh fruit and vegetables, pickles, chutneys, jams, cheeses, pulses, washing out liquids, soaps, etc...you get the picture? No plastic to be seen.

Then came lockdown and they all got together and set up a website called We Deliver Xxxxxx (within a couple of weeks) encouraging other businesses to do the same. I think I’ve mentioned this before.

Suddenly we were all aware of small local businesses we never really knew existed. Some operating from home. Whether you wanted afternoon tea for two, or your curtains altered, designer bread or designer ale, garden manure or chicken feed, flour or flowers, cheese or chess pieces, suddenly there they were offering produce and services when everywhere else had closed up shop.

They have all flourished during lockdown and loyal customers are continuing to use them.

Unfortunately too manny high streets have prostituted themselves to the big chain stores in the past and these drove out the small businesses - aided and abetted by local planners and (let’s admit it) us with our lazy shipping habits.

Then when the big stores pulled out there is nothing left.

We have been lucky in my town as the only two big stores are Boots and Smiths. But gillybob and Peardrops are right inasmuch bad investment is needed to lure back small businesses and support them until they are established.

...inasmuch as investment...

I live in the middle of a town. The council are squeezing the zone of parking we've already paid for, making it smaller than it was - parking is just a cash cow to them. We all have to street park. Some of us have paid twice as the only spaces available are in the next zone, so we have to buy a ticket even though we've got a residents' parking permit.
It's not that parking is exorbitant, it's there are enough parking places.

I have been thinking along the same lines. It needs a clear national strategy to move away from trying to maintain the "staus quo" on the High St and completely rethink what s needed etc. . It is such an obvious partial solution re needing more housing too!

Peardrop the sort of living you describe would suit me apart from mixing ages.
It would be a good idea to have retirement apartments in a shopping area with all the necessities for people in the older age group eg medical centre, coffee shops, restaurants with lots of small shops and art galleries for browsing.
There were flats built in an out of town mall near where I live and are occupied by younger people. Debenhams was the biggest store there and that has gone now so it will, I think, be a bit forlorn now.

AGAA4 lots seem to be concerned with the idea of mixing age groups because of noise and rowdiness, perhaps some sort of by-law where licensing hours where cut to 10.30 pm and no noise on the streets after 11 pm, perhaps an hour later at weekends. If the youngsters were not happy they'd go in to the cities. Don't know if it would be do-able but we need to try something.
Biggest problem in our country, in my opinion, is the poor relationship with alcohol and drugs.

Peardrop I agree about the problems with alcohol and drugs.

I would be concerned about parties in the flats with young people that may go on till early hours of the morning. I think young people should have a good time but hearing from people who live next door to them in flats it can be difficult if you are older and not in the best of health.

I remember my elderly neighbours apologising in advance for a party they were having. The party was from 1pm till 6pm!

The large empty shops could be converted into flats, surely. If planners used a portion of the building for accommodation, and demolished some in order to create green spaces. Admittedly I have no idea how a portion of a building can be demolished, but someone must know.
Agree about the need for independent shops, they should include a good butcher, fishmonger, small grocery store and fruit & veg shop, haberdashery, craft shops. Also cafes for people to meet up. Picnic tables and benches, trees, plenty of litter bins, designated play areas for children, post office, bank, free or low cost transport with plenty of stops.
All this and more, with upper floor housing sounds great to me.

The children's play areas could have someone (vetted of course) to keep an eye on children while parents shop. Once in Marseille, many years ago when our girls were small, there was an old lady in a playground whose function was to push young children on the swings.

Great ideas Antonia, trees, tables and benches and, importantly, litter bins.
Lots of small town high streets are possibly narrow enough to be covered from one side to the other so that outdoor dining would be viable even in winter. Perhaps covered in a few areas only and at first floor level with live green roofs so that the properties above look down on greenery.

Great ideas. For older people not having to drive or get a bus to have a day out is definitely a plus.
I would love to live somewhere like that.

As someone else said, let's hope there are some town planners around.

I have always thought this would be an excellent idea, Peardrop. A beautiful medieval market town near me has a mixture of houses and shops along its extensive high street, and it seems to work well. For older people there is the convenience of going just a few yards for daily essentials, the street is busy and interesting, and there are no unsightly vacant shops - they are either re let swiftly or become residential.

This is nothing new, it's already happened. There's always been flats above shops. High Streets are full of cafes and bars that used to be shops already. Smaller parades of shops have disappeared with the ground floor shop being made into flats. Pubs and churches have been converted to flats.
Around 25% of households, including me, do not have a car. We need to keep some local high street shops.

You’ve Just described my local town! Still too many empty shops but most the time when they close another coffee shop or restaurant opens. Flats above shops , and apartments central to town, parks and houses walking distance.