Are you intending to see your family this Christmas come what may, or if there are restrictions will you abide by them ?

I know maddyone - and it would be very difficult because of our dog, as discussed on another thread.

In our mind and heart, we have accepted that we probably won't see them until Easter. But should circumstances change, we will just jump in the car and drive- we are not expecting it to happen. If it does, it will be a huge bonus.

I have often wondered how they arrive at the R rate and how accurate it is, especially since so much government policy regarding Covid-19 is based on it.

Maw Hetty I wasn't talking about Christmas, I was talking about everyday behaviour in the area we live in.

It is impossible to discuss what anyone will do over Christmas because we do not know what the Christmas rules will be and you cannot discuss what you do not know.

However, sn article in the DT today based on papers released by SAGE did suggest a significant loosening of restrictions over Christmas followed by what SAGE call 'voluntary' quarantine. They also speak of large family gatherings, pubs and parties. I must say that sounds excessive and madness to me, and I will be doing none of those three.

But until the regulations are officially announced, there is little we can say.

maddyone

Gaga I sincerely hope you are able to get home and see your little grandson this Christmas, but again, you need to consider the quarantine required before you can see your family.

I will sit in my house in the UK happy to quarantine to see GS. They had Covid a few weeks ago so I shouldn't be a risk to them. The risk on the flight will be to me. But living overseas with no family or friends isn't bearable if I can't see family a few times a year.

JenniferEccles

I have often wondered how they arrive at the R rate and how accurate it is, especially since so much government policy regarding Covid-19 is based on it.

Doesn't the R rate become less meaningful when an area has a smaller number in the first place? Some areas also have huge extremes.

I mean a smaller number if cases, not population.

It is impossible to discuss what anyone will do over Christmas because we do not know what the Christmas rules will be and you cannot discuss what you do not know

M0nica precisely - at last!
How often have others on this thread as well as I, said exactly that in response to the question on the thread title?
So I do not understand why there need have been any argument.

I am going to be very daring by saying that what I do will depend on the rules. However I will do nothing that endangers either my health or anybody elses.
Friday,6 November 17.38

I said I would wait for the rules and see what they said and that I would put no-one at risk
Friday, 6 November, 18.13

No 'at last' about it Maw. It is what I have said right from the start(see above) and if the DT article is correct about what the government has in mind, I will definitely be ignoring government rules over Christmas and setting my own rules and they will be a lot stricter than those the government sets.

I find it rather worrying that if anyone expresses any doubts on government policy and rules on COVID, they are immediately classfied as a rule breaking party goer, even though they make the point in every post that they currently obey the rules but are just not prepared to commit to obeying rules they have yet to see - and when it looks as if the rules will be very lax - most emphatically will ignore them.

Anyone who thinks that the average Briton will obey any guidelines over Christmas is in my (grumpy Sunday morning) opinion, deluded.
Even now I see people having their “walk with one friend” nothing like 1 metre apart, ditto sitting on benches

The pandemic is effectively over but SAGE won't let this nightmare end.

Not in my area. I was shocked to see numbers in my area had doubled yesterday.

All hospitals in Gtr Manchester have stopped anything other than emergency/cancer etc surgery. Our local R is steadily reducing. Most people are wearing masks in shops and the town centres. On our long walks yesterday, we met lots of other walkers, usually in groups of 2 but everyone stepping aside to let each other pass on the narrow paths in the woodlands

As many of us are wondering what are fate will be over the Christmas holidays and if there will be a lift of restrictions so some of us can see family I have this morning read an article saying that at least 9 Tory M.P.s are warning there will be a rebellion in the party if the lockdown is not lifted on 2nd December and also the British nation as a whole will not take to being told what to do after that date. Some Tory backbenchers saying that Boris is only showing the worst case scenario data and trying to show he has this pandemic under control.
It's getting hard to believe what anyone is saying once again I just switch off listening to it all

Anyone breaking the rules is a potential killer , blunt but true. We live in a 2 tier area in Scotland . Yesterday , while doing my hair , my hairdresser admitted to going to the nearest city which is in a tier above our ( so forbidden ) and shopped there and visits her daughter there frequently . Most of her clients are quite old so I was really appalled . Thing is we live in a small town and I cannot really go elsewhere . I am glad I only go about every 6 months.

I’m concerned that if there is an easing of restrictions for a few days over Christmas to allow for that “normal” Christmas with extended family there could be a high price to pay in January. Numbers will soar and we could all be in a prolonged lockdown to attempt to get it under control. Hospitals are already under immense pressure due to the current covid high numbers filling ICU beds. We haven’t hit the peak yet for flu and other respiratory illnesses which swamp the hospitals every winter. January/Feb could be the perfect storm.

I’ve accepted we’ll have a Christmas like no other. I really don’t care as long as we can all stay as safe as possible. We owe it to each other to take all the precautions we can to save lives and do our bit to try to ease the pressure on our hospital staff who are already expected to work extra shifts to cope with demand. Including my daughter and her colleagues who won’t have a day off to spend with their families on Christmas Day as they’ll be at the bedsides of sick and dying patients. If these last few weeks are anything to go by they’ll be lucky if they get a tea break never mind a Christmas dinner.

Sorry for the rant, but I’m feeling seriously p****d off !

Witnessed a child’s party clearly happening yesterday

Floradora There are plenty of ways you can break the rules without putting anyone under threat of death. If instead of meeting 6 people from 6 different households, I meet 7 from one other household I would say I was actually reducing my risk of either catching COVID or passing it on and there are other similar examples.

I am not saying we should flout the rules, but providing our overriding principle in everything we do is to avoid anything that might increase our risk or that of anyone else of getting COVID, a deviation from the rules is not going to be fatal.

I saw veterans complete with medals this morning proudly walking together to the local war memorial to pay respects to comrades-in-arms. I think this is what M0nica means, and is absolutely right, in that these veterans had made a considered judgement and decided to flout the 'rules'. As the Queen flouted the advice she had been given not to visit the memorial to the unknown soldier. How many more years will some of those elderly veterans be able to remember their comrades? They came together despite the fact we were in a Tier 3 area before lockdown (although we could clearly see on the UK govt website that the R rate was falling fast locally before we were even put into Tier 3, so yes it seems the figures were contrived). Numbers of infections, even with debatable positive tests, were also falling before we went into lockdown (again ONS figures). We all have a personal viewpoint based on age, circumstances etc, and perhaps we grans have more reason than others to be fearful for elderly people. But we didn't stop the country and do untold damage to young people's lives because of SARS, MERS, Spanish flu, HIV or the large number of killer diseases in our childhood. I asked a Norwegian friend how things were going on in Norway. 'No different' she said, 'we carried on as normal. Numbers of deaths are small'. As did Sweden. On their govt. websites their infection numbers are lower than ours. Personally, I agree with M0nica's approach, although I understand why others are fearsome of this disease and hope the govt's measures will work. Unfortunately, there will be 2 of us in my house this Christmas (whatever the govt dictat) as others of our family have long had different plans.

The Manchester Evening News has an article today warning that if you drive during lockdown, other than for essential purposes, your insurance could be invalid. This point of view was supported by Nic whoever, the celeb lawyer who helped various celebs beat driving bans. Essential includes, shopping for food, supporting a vulnerable person, collecting medical supplies and attending medical appointments.
Just saying.

Sorry, I should have added that the article advised readers to check with their individual insurance companies

Attending a church for private prayer is deemed acceptable. Also carrying out volunteer work is allowed, and travel for support purposes as part of your linked household. I would doubt the police would have much time to check all those out.

I'm sure you're right B9exchange and none of those things seem either unreasonable or outside the guidance.
I read yesterday of a woman who drove 300 miles from England to Wales to check on her horse at livery there. She wa fined £1000.
A man who drove from England to pick up a puppy in Scotland was also fined though that was first lock down so about 100. The motorway police departments monitor the borders - so be aware of this.

If the rules are as they are now, then no I will not be seeing my family. I would like to meet them separately to exchange presents and maybe have a flask of soup on a walk, I do my best to abide by the rules, as if we all broke them then this farce will never be over.

I'm hoping we may return to the rule of six people maximum getting together as that's my usual number on Christmas Day.

It would surely be madness to allow big parties this year. Whilst everyone would like to see their closest family, no-one needs to have a big party.

The whole thing is depressing, and with the mutation of the virus in minks, found in Denmark, I wonder if we’ll ever be able to free of it. I was pinning my hopes on a vaccine, but it’s been said that this mutation may make the vaccine less effective. Never mind Christmas, I feel as if we might be living like this forever.

And I don’t want to!