Amnesty International say - 'no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’'

... because if you are using a public toilet you should be vigilant
Do you actually think this?

I strongly disagree, women's toilets are (relatively) safe spaces... for women. That is why they exist.

Why are transwomen safer in womens bathrooms astral after all single sex bathrooms are apparently just an illusion of safety, surely they would be just as safe in the mens bathroom, they would just need to be vigilant as women have just been told to be.

Because they identify as women Galaxy

I dont believe any of that obviously and have no idea what being vigilant means, but I am just pointing out the absurdity of telling women that single sex spaces provide no safety but yet they are a safer place for transwomen.

I haven't said women aren't safer I have said they aren't safe and the perception that they are is wrong, as is the idea that banning trans women will make them safer.
If you google women attacked in toilets you can find the evidence of when they have been attacked. It's a bit difficult to find because the anti self ID brigade have flooded the net with posts and articles about unisex loos but it's there.
Galaxy that is such a silly argument I would have thought better of you after all why shouldn't all women use a male toilet?
I will take it that you fully realise that the whole concept of keeping trans women out of women's facilities is unworkable and what is actually going on here is an attempt to cover up discrimination and prejudice by pretending it's concern.

I cannot comment on what I didn't say.

Can everyone please keep up

But how does that make them safer in womens spaces than mens when women are bring told on this thread that womens spaces are not safe.

You can take what you like but it wouldn't be true I am afraid. So womens spaces are safer than mixed spaces now are they?

How does banning trans women make them safer Galaxy? No space is 100% safe. I think everyone knows that. I see you have taken to posting the ridiculous so I shall assume you realise the argument is lost.

Fair point astral, you didnt say that I was just pointing out the absurdity of the two conflicting arguments.

I absolutely guarantee that everyone on this thread has used a public toilet with a trans women at some point and never known. That's just the reality of the situation and I truly understand that some people don't feel comfortable with that but I don't know what can be done to help other than embracing trans women and working with them to keep us all safe from opportunistic predators who exist everywhere and probably less in places where people go to release their waste.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpIy-0_esU

This is why women's single sex toilets exist.
Widen the bandwidth of what it is to be a man please, don't just expect women to budge up.

NiceasMice but then we would have trans men in women's toilets looking and acting like men, leaving puddles about the place and sending everyone into histerics

Astral

Because they identify as women Galaxy

Oh a cute kitty photo. Another poster used to post photos of cute kitties as a passive aggressive message. Can't think who it was now......

Just a timely reminder as the subject always gets dragged back to toilets, and am sure I am as guilty of that as anyone, this is not just about toilets(something I think could be easily solved) this is about refuges, women only shortlists, political representation, prisons, sport, crime statistics, etc etc.

This thread has fixated only on women's toilets but the main issue so that there are many other areas where women are vulnerable, as other posters have pointed out. Women's refuges exist because women have been physically, sexually, emotionally and psychologically abused by men. How can you ratify a biological man, who dresses as a woman, being allowed to work or live amongst those women? Can you not see or understand that some women and their children are traumatised by men; irrespective of how they are dressed? This is a bigger problem than just a sexual toilet facilities.

Snap Galaxy!

,,, trans men in women's toilets looking and acting like men

Well that is perfectly ok because as you said, they are acting like men
Single sex spaces in action right there. Not a problem.

Sorry Chewbacca, I thought it was a politer, friendlier way of expressing just a tiny bit of frustration. Not passive aggressive at all and not intended to upset anyone.

I can not do that in future, I didn't know it would remind you of someone who upsets you.

I thought you were just copying me chewbacca

NiceasMice, I'm not sure I you didn't undertand what I meant or if I'm not understanding you. I think I've spent too long looking at a screen today. Another day.

Although am fascinated by the idea of a sexual toilet facility. That definitely doesnt sound safe

Galaxy and Chewbacca
Agreed, there is so much more at stake than just toilets and changing rooms.

I didn't know it would remind you of someone who upsets you

No problem Astral. They didn't upset me; they were suspended/banned.

Apologies for the length of this but I've copied and pasted it in its entirety:

A Survivors Letter

"Dear Women’s Organisations, We are women survivors of systemic male violence in all its forms. As you probably know, 98% of sexual offences and 80% of violent crimes are committed by males against females and not the reverse. We have suffered every kind of horror inflicted on our bodies and minds. For many of us we are battling every day with trauma symptoms. Speaking out is not easy for us and we respectfully ask that you listen. As you may be aware the government is considering changes to the Gender Recognition Act.

We are extremely concerned about these proposed changes which will allow any biological male to easily self-identify as a woman and will take away our fundamental right to natal female spaces. This would make it very difficult for you to refuse any male in women’s spaces even under the Equality Act exemptions. We are surprised that we, as survivors, are having to explain to you, women’s organisations, why we don’t want biological males in our spaces but we have no choice but to speak out in the face of a barrage of online verbal abuse, death threats and threats of male sexual torture. For many of us, we are only alive today because of women only spaces. We know how vital it is for our healing and we fear for other women. Some of us fear for our lives without the support of women’s services, which many of us will be unable to attend with a biological male presence there. We disagree with these proposed changes. We would like to keep our spaces for females only and we ask that you oppose the changes to the Gender Recognition Act in the up and coming consultation for the following reasons.

We object to being made invisible as survivors of male violence. We object to our needs being disregarded and made less of a priority than those of trans people We are being put second in the following ways: a. We are being forced to submit to the transgender activist world view that a woman is a feeling in someone’s head, rather than a biological reality Please think about whether you honestly believe this and that women don’t experience biology based oppressions? If you don’t believe that woman is merely a feeling why are you validating this? Would you make a generic survivors group be from a Pagan or Muslim perspective to be inclusive of Pagan or Muslim women? If not why then make women and your whole service submit to a trans-activist world view? Pagan and Muslim women are not demanding this. No other oppressed group has demanded another group submit to their view of the world. Why is such a small group being prioritised to the point where women must sacrifice their sex based human rights? b. We do not feel safe and mounting evidence shows we are not safe Women’s Aid motto is “Until Women and Children are Safe”. We do not feel safe having males in our spaces. If my rapist follows me you will ring 999. You will get the police to do safety checks on my welfare. If he comes near the refuge you will force me to leave there for my own safety and the safety of other women, yet if he puts on a dress and calls himself a woman you could welcome him into the refuge and call women bigots for objecting. Under the new law you may be forced to do this or at least you would find it very difficult to prevent. For some of us, our perpetrators were trans, at the time of abuse or transitioned later after abusing us."