Eddie Izzard

That “pronouns are rohypnol” article is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read. As someone who was assaulted after having something slipped into my drink years ago... yeah, using someone’s preferred pronouns is NOTHING like that.

I briefly saw him sitting for a portrait in his female persona. I found him quite unsettling so I turned the programme off.

What does looked and dressed like a woman mean?

trisher - The Op's question was is it brave to ask for particular pronouns, since the person is asking others to accommodate their feelings and beliefs that surely centres around them. Nothing wrong with asking for what you want but I just don't see it as heroic.
No idea SueDonim as I live in jeans and don't wear make up I'm probably not doing it right.

It was brave of Eddy to run all those marathons. Not able to answer OP on this one though.

trisher
It would therefore seem logical to call someone who is dressed as and looks like a woman "she".
Izzard doesn't look like a woman, to me.

How is it being self-centred to tell someone who asks, what your preferred pronoun is?
And if no-one asks?

I don't think anyone asked Izzard about preferred pronouns recently.

Slightly off tangent, but... If tomorrow, women adopt the male pronoun, do you think they will get equal pay and treatment in the work place?
I don't, but I'm enjoying imagining millions of women claiming their right to be treated and referred to as a man who prefers to dress like a woman.

My grandson has told us he is now our grand daughter. It was only a month or so ago so it is all very new and we are unable to see her and chat, and just get used to her. The hardest thing to remember is the pronouns.

pensionpat you sound very calm about this change.
Do you truly believe that your grandson is now your granddaughter? If so, why do you believe that?

He's a bloke!

There seem to me so many things mixed up in this that it's hard to know where to start.

I agree with AmberSpyglass that it is several steps too far to compare date rape with using preferred pronouns.

At the same time, I think that telling people how to refer to you when you aren't there verges on the self-important, but I suppose that for someone as well-known as Izzard it may make sense to make an announcement rather than have to keep telling people that this is the new state of affairs. It's annoying to see it on work email signatures, though, when you have never met the sender, and are unlikely to remember their preferred pronoun out of the hundreds of other people who work there.

I also think that Izzard may well struggle if the plan is to live 'as a woman' all the time, as the impression I get is of someone who is very 'alpha', and women are rarely treated as such. A big problem for many transwomen is adjusting to not being deferred to like they were as men, and being expected to defer to others. I suspect that this will be worse for celebrities who may already be used to people hanging on their every word, and that if for no other reason Izzard may never experience life as most women do.

Another one who is wearing jeans and a man's t-shirt; (i.e. me) do you think I am NOT a woman then? Because by the logic of 'wearing "female" clothes' to be female, presumably I am perceived as male.

Have several friends int he same position. Two have had full reversal and official change, another, like her- left it too late and have asked to recognition and respect. I don't get it- always been clearly female and only attracted to males.

But why should I not respect their polite request and wishes? Is it not up to me but to them.

I do think there is something a bit 'strange' about anyone who feels threatened by this and can't cope react with acceptance and tolerance. Perhaps not quite so sure themselves???

www.spectator.co.uk/article/eddie-izzard-and-the-denigration-of-women. I suggest that this article explains how I feel on the subject.

I think the responses to this thread explain quite clearly why it is ‘brave’ for a person who has hitherto been identified as he/him to ask to be called she/her. It’s really none of my business what a person has between their legs, or what they do with it, provided they do not break the law. If someone wants to be addressed in a particular way, how does it harm me or society to respect their wishes? There was a whole thread recently on Mrs/Miss/Ms titles, and as I recall, most posters were happy to address people with whatever title they prefer. This isn’t so very different.

By the way, I have my own reasons for disliking Eddie Izzard which have nothing whatever to do with this topic. I’m not defending a celebrity whose work or persona I hold in any regard.

Loislovesstewie

www.spectator.co.uk/article/eddie-izzard-and-the-denigration-of-women. I suggest that this article explains how I feel on the subject.

Ah once again a white male trying to set women against transgender people. He doesn't really get what he is does he? Could he identify as black? Well I suppose he could but you know damn well he''s not going to, because he's a white male. They are the ones with privilege. They are the ones trying to drive wedges between the trans community and women, because both are minorities, because both suffer under patriachy, because that is how patriachy survives by pretending to support one minority whilst denigrating another, because a society where all are equal and accepted really scares the shit out of hm.

Oh please don't start giving me 'white privilege' nonsense. I was hardly born privileged despite being white. And no-one is driving a wedge apart from militants who think that biology doesn't matter.

Eddie Izzard is a white male.

geekesse

I think the responses to this thread explain quite clearly why it is ‘brave’ for a person who has hitherto been identified as he/him to ask to be called she/her. It’s really none of my business what a person has between their legs, or what they do with it, provided they do not break the law. If someone wants to be addressed in a particular way, how does it harm me or society to respect their wishes? There was a whole thread recently on Mrs/Miss/Ms titles, and as I recall, most posters were happy to address people with whatever title they prefer. This isn’t so very different.

Which responses do you mean, geekesse? I have seen neutral comments, such as people saying it wasn't 'brave', but nobody saying that it was anything negative.

A number of people, myself included, have said that they aren't bothered either way, which, as you say, is exactly how most people feel about those who have not changed pronoun.

Loislovesstewie if you don't understand that most institutions, the majority of finance, most positions of influence and most political roles are held by white males, you don't understand white male privilege. Of course there are poor people of all colours, races and genders, but their existence and your individual circumstances do not disprove or discredit white male privilege. It exists. And one of the ways it continues to maintain its position is through division .

Loislovesstewie

Oh please don't start giving me 'white privilege' nonsense. I was hardly born privileged despite being white. And no-one is driving a wedge apart from militants who think that biology doesn't matter.

but do you think that perhaps you were more privileged than a black person born at the same time and place/ circumstances.
that's a simple way of looking at it, but in fact it refers more to structures of power, and in-built assumptions.

This issue hugely affects women though as self ID means that men such as Izzard will have the right to use women’s toilets, showers, hostels, hospital wards, prisons etc.

I truly believe women and especially vulnerable women who have suffered abuse from men should be protected from men identifying as women in their spaces. There are numerous reports of these men in women’s prisons abusing women-it’s terrible!

blue25

This issue hugely affects women though as self ID means that men such as Izzard will have the right to use women’s toilets, showers, hostels, hospital wards, prisons etc.

I truly believe women and especially vulnerable women who have suffered abuse from men should be protected from men identifying as women in their spaces. There are numerous reports of these men in women’s prisons abusing women-it’s terrible!

Well put in place proper risk assessments that protect the vulnerable.
I really don't see what Eddie Izzard wanting be called "she" has to do with any of that.
More men are raped in prison and transwomen are at risk in men's prisons.

Woman can wear trousers and do ..with no one batting an eyelid but a man in a skirt will draw sniggers and name calling .I've seen it happen.Theres a transvestite local to us with a beard and long beautiful red hair.The abuse given outside the supermarket because of a skirt and high heels made ME complain to the staff.Its unacceptable .They didn't abuse women in trousers ...why not?
People are all different and should be allowed to get on with their lives how they choose.If its not affecting your life then butt out of theirs.The vast majority of trans or transitional folk will never harm anyone in their lives,just the same as the straight community.Theres good and bad in them all