Eddie Izzard

Izzard has worn so-called 'women' clothing' for decades, though, paddyanne, and that's not what this thread is about.

I feel it is execptionally arrogant of anyone to assume how another wishes to be addressed - have some of us no respect for another human being?

It is a process though and I believe in the early stages when he wore dresses the BBC didn't think it appropriate to let him appear. He had quite a successful career before they let him on. Things have moved on now and changing the pronoun is just another step.

Another step to what though trisher ?

The majority of transwomen have no desire to lose their genitalia. A growing number consider that the penis is not a male organ, and do not feel trapped in the wrong body. This begs the question, what criteria do they use then to define a woman - simply the wearing of what they deem to be women's clothes? I have no problem with them doing so, but if that is how a women is defined how do I identify myself as being a woman?

There is a tendency to lump all those who identify as trans or non-binary in the same box. There are people who are trans who have strong objections with some of the newer ideology. There are many who have transitioned surgically that do not accept that changing clothes and pronouns makes a man a woman. Some women may feel differently about sharing intimate spaces with the people who are still happy in their male body but identify as a women. And of course there are those that who will claim to identify as female purely to access those spaces. But none of that was what the OP asked, though many generalisations have crept into this discussion.

I am not going to attempt to unravel what is going on in Izzard's brain, it's none of my business. As I've said before I don't see it as brave, since it's not for the benefit of anyone else. It's also hardly trail-blazing, it's rather fashionable now if anything.

Eddie Izzard can pretty much do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. I do prefer the use of He and she rather than they because the use of a plural pronoun gets very confusing (Are you listening Sam Smith?) The 14 year old son of one of DD's friends has decided he wants to be referred to as they or them. He's a nice boy buy honestly not very bright and I'm not certain he's really got any idea why he's doing it except that he's seen other people.

trisher
More men are raped in prison and transwomen are at risk in men's prisons.

More men than what?

Transwomen's place should not be in female prisons, their place should be in a transwomen's wing or prison.

trisher why are you referring to Izzard as 'he'?

paddyanne if that person does not claim he's a woman then that's fine.

The supermarket customers can't know what he claims to be, tho.
The rudeness of some could be caused, in part, by their rejection of demands to accept people as women when they are not.

What if he takes the 'next step' and goes into the women's toilet in the supermarket?
Do you then assume he's a woman and not a straightforward transvestite?

FarNorth Rape is common in men's prisons so more men are raped in them. Than anywhere else, than any women in prisons.
No one male or female should be subjected to rape whilst in the custody of the state. And yet they are. Many boys moved into or temporarily accommodated in male prisons are also co-erced into having sex. All prisoners should be accommodated somewhere where they are safe.

Apologies to Eddie I was trying to make the point that when she was regarded as a transvesitite (and therefore referred to as "he") wearing dresses was considered unacceptable for mainstream TV.

trisher exactly, re rape. Men are overwhelmingly the ones who do this, not women.
Therefore putting men into women's prisons, on their own say-so that they are actually women, is not going to go well.

Transwomen, and others, being unsafe in men's prisons is a problem for men's prisons, not women's prisons, to deal with.

Btw, I'm not suggesting that Izzard is in any way connected to the subject of prisons but it's a topic closely related to that of men claiming to be women.

Part of the problem with self-id is that it is women who have to deal with the fallout. As transwomen were originally men, why not let men deal with it?

Instead, it is women who have to cope with accepting men in their spaces, with the possibility of sexual assault, and with their own sex and gender being co-opted by those who want to co-opt them, and with being abused if they are not happy with this arrangement.

The assumption that self id leads to higher rates of sexual assault has been disproven. Organisations like Women’s Aid have gone on record stating that trans women must be accommodated in women’s spaces. What “fall out” do you anticipate men getting? And don’t forget, trans men use men’s facilities without assaulting or harassing anyone.

Trans women are women. Therefore they get any space designated as a woman’s space.

I feel that maybe she couldnt be herself while her parents were alive. She "came out" as transvestite when her mum died but chose until her dad died to announce that she was in fact transgender.

Why isn't the likes of Elton John ever referred to in the female vernacular ?
I've often wondered that too.

Women are adult human females, that's it. We are not an outfit to be worn or a feeling in a man's head. A man coming out as a woman is just sexism. It reinforces sexist stereotypes which we can all do without. Could Eddie decide he was a different race, age or level of ability? If not, why not? Eddie was brave when he wore a dress and claimed it as his. That was smashing stereotypes, that was brave. Wear what you like, love who you please, but don't applaud sexism just because it's fashionable.

Why would Elton John be referred to as female? Surely he is just a gay man.

Because Elton John is a gay man. He is married to a gay man and he is neither transvestite nor transgender. It really is insulting to gay men to ask such a question.

Women in prison are more likely to be assaulted by other women anyway since 2010, of the 122 sexual assaults that occurred in the female prison estate in the UK, a total of five had been perpetrated by trans individuals.
Are we having some sort of league table for sexual assaults and coersion in prison? Is a transgender woman assaulting another woman worse than a man assaulting or coersing a boy? All assault is wrong all causes harm and a decent prison system should deal with offenders through a strong and efficient risk assessment not start picking one sort of assault and prioritising it.

Women in prison are more likely to be assaulted by other women anyway

Very observant.

Women's prisons are for women, not for men with identity issues. Women in prison are some of the most vulnerable people in society, most have suffered at the hands of male violence. Being incarcerated with males is cruel. Women are not their as a buffer for men. Men need to learn to be kinder to feminine men.

LumpySpacedPrincess
Well said.

NiceasMice

*Women in prison are more likely to be assaulted by other women anyway*

Very observant.

What, sexually assaulted? Or just assaulted?

So they are going to be assaulted anyway so let's shove some males in there, nice. Transwomen are not women, they are men who wish to be seen as women. Where that conflicts with women and girls right's and protections I will centre women and girls, even if it hurts some males feelings.

We would be better fighting sexist stereotypes so both sexes can present how they want without comment. Sex is real and relevant, more relevant than individual feelings.