can we discuss feminism please

"prostate-specific antigen" Rosie51. Skenes glands are made form the same tissue type as the prostate. Much the same as men get breast cancer because they haven't breasts but have the same tissue type.
I'm saying that someone identifying as male has a perfect right to identify as male and has given birth. Whatever your beliefs, or even the MPs beliefs, are, is irrelevant. When we reach the stage of one person's beliefs being inflicted on another we have reached the stage when democracy will no longer matter. You can think what you like you can't inflict that on other people.

Funny how very pedantic you are over the prostate cancer. I'm not denying anyone's right to identify how they wish, but you are making ridiculous statements about male uteruses. Once again how would this person's DNA come back from a blind test? Someone can identify as a jedhi knight for all I care, but their biology will be male or female and certain functions eg gestation and birthing of an infant are sex specific.
Where do you sit on the child's birth certificate. Being as it's the child's legal document should it reflect scientific truth or be a vanity project for the parent?

I'm "being pedantic" really! It's his uterus, he identfies as a man. He's allowed to do so.

Ah can't answer the other questions, thought not.

Rosie does it really matter if I answer your questions? As a matter of fact you are quite right about DNA, but completely wrong about breast and prostate cancer as I think you know but are unwilling to admit.
As for a child's birth certificate. The child will be identfied as male or female because such are the restictions in our society. Perhaps there would be more equality if sex wasn't on it and the parents waited to see how their child developed. The restrictions in our society are just that and other societies have more genders that we have. But I don't expect you to be interested in that.

They will be identified as Male and female because it is vital for their health care.

Breast cancer in men and women is identical, I don't think I've ever denied that. The breasts of men are in exactly the same place as the breasts of women and are of the same tissue. The prostate cancers are in different glands in men and women but it is the same cancer pathogen. Happy now?

I wasn't referring to the child's sex being recorded as I suspect you well know. I was referring to the person who with a female body gave birth to the child wanting to be recorded as father, denying the child was born of a mother. Anything other than factual truth on the child's certificate is a vanity project to validate another person's identity and nothing to do with the child.
That you are incapable of separating and understanding sex from gender is your problem. We can have as many genders as you like, personally I think we'd be better with none, just every individual being themselves, but humans only have two sexes, and that is constant in nature too.

Oh God dont mention nature. Clown fish will not be far away

Galaxy I did think it was a risk shall I specify mammals and birds just to be totally safe?

time.com/5431836/dna-transgender-history/

An interesting read I thought.

Aside from that I've alway felt that the greatest advantage that human beings have over other species is their ability to make changes and choices that go against their 'nature'. Nature in this case referring to their X and Y chromosomes. Human beings are able to transcend their biology in pretty much every way other than the ability to either carry a baby or provide the sperm to make one. True, DNA can't be altered to change someone's biological function as such, but there is some evidence that there are chromosomal changes in those who go on to become trans. See the above article for a mention of it. So, men can choose to live as women, present as women even have reassignment surgeries to change their bodies to a female form and vice versa. No, they cannot effectively change the biology that was determined after conception - but that doesn't mean that they fulfil the other 99.9% of life as their chosen identity and gender. The reason I've never answered anyone's demands to have their belief that sex is sex is sex and it's predetermined and can't be changed is because I honestly don't get why it makes a difference. Who people are, how they choose to behave and how they live is what counts, as is what language they use to describe it. If transgender people haven't eroded traditional sex roles and the concept of manhood and womanhood as we traditionally accept it in the last 300,000 years I doubt they will manage it now. I just don't see the threat - and it doesn't matter how many times people repeat that they think there is one that is greater now than it's ever been, it doesn't make it true for me. Just as me repeating how I don't buy it doesn't make it true for others.

Galaxy

They will be identified as Male and female because it is vital for their health care.

There was a bit ago a programme about creaating a gender neutral school. I don't know if you saw it. It was interesting and one of the things it revealed was that girls assumed that their bodies were less strong and less capable of athleticism than boys, although in fact the change only happens after puberty. Pesumably if a child was ill a doctor could identify them as male or female so why an official record is necessary I don't know. But completely gender neutral children who could dress and behave entirely as they wish would be an interesting thing to see. And perhaps if parents didn't have to write male or female on a birth certificate it might be easier.

Sigh. Behaviour and dress have no effect on sex.
Recording of sex is necessary for all sorts of reasons I cant believe I need to explain that.

Of corse behaviour and dress have no effect on sex (I don't believe I said they did). I said it might be more possible to have a gender neutral environment if sex became something that was just a medical matter. It won't happen of course but it's interestng to speculate.

FiLiA is a free newsletter that is informative and can be received by email.
The latest edition has a number of articles that relate directly to this discussion. Recommend.

Found this on Forwomenscotland
Someone mentioned census, it is from last year and still relevant.

Count Women So Women Count
Posted on 8th March 2020
When will you start caring about data? About the importance of sex-disaggregated data? When will you start caring about the way in which we are already replacing data on sex with data on gender identity? When will you realise that it matters? That counting women matters or else they quite literally don’t count.

Maybe you will start caring when the newspapers report that there is an apparent explosion in ‘female’ sexual offending rates. Because it won’t take many transwomen being convicted of sexual offences to double or triple the offending rate.

Maybe you will start caring when the government or criminal justice agencies reallocate precious resources away from sexual offending programmes for men to fund programmes for all these new ‘female’ sexual offenders.

Maybe you will start caring when a man who commits a sexual offence against a woman you care about and love slips through the net because the sexual offending programme for men has been cut back…to tackle the growing phenomenon of ‘female’ sexual offending.

Maybe you will start caring when your employer announces proudly that their ‘gender pay gap’ is closing, even though – in your heavily male-dominated tech company – you know that’s only because two transwomen are now regarded as female for the purposes of the company’s annual gender pay gap report.

Maybe you’ll start caring because your employer tells you there isn’t really a problem with female employees being underpaid for work of the same value because the stats now say something different.

Maybe you’ll start caring when the prevalence rates for a disease that disproportionately affects young women starts to decline because the census and health authorities have enabled people to answer the sex question based on their gender identity not their sex.

Maybe you’ll start caring when a young woman you know and love struggles to secure the health care she needs because the local NHS authority has cut funding for the screening programme for that disease based on the declining prevalence rate.

When will you start caring about the loss of this data, which is already happening?

You’ve read Caroline Criado-Perez’s book, right?

WAKE UP! #countwomensowomencount

Love, a Data Nerd

I'm sure you're not allowed to post the same thing on 2 threads MBHP1 Do you imagine this makes it more relevant?.
I think the bit about transwomen in companies is quite interesting. If they identify as women and are higher paid and in higher positions they may in fact help to change the attitude wihin the company because they will be women n authority. So it may become more acceptable and less male-centric.

Didn’t many of those trans women climb achieve promotion as men. Pre trans

You wouldn't know Iam64 but as it takes 2 years livng as your chosen gender to get a GRC they must have been presenting as women for sometime. So the perception will be that women can acheive. Besides which I reckon anyone, who has put up with the abuse and condemnation transpeople do, has been through the GRC process and is living the life they aspired to, will have more life experience and consideration for minorities than most men.

In answer to OPs initial question, yes I believe woman of a certain age have the maturity to accept people for who they are , how they identify etc ,without making a bloody great song & dance about it, live as you want to., & let others do the same ( obviously this does not include any form of disrespect or bullying) I believe the vast majority of folks are very accepting of others. It really doesn’t have to be such a big deal.best wishes to all .

I saw this today on France 24 and thought it was an interesting aspect of feminism:
theglobalherald.com/news/the-brothas-of-strasbourgs-female-rap-scene/