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Who will he take after?

(68 Posts)
geekesse Mon 08-Mar-21 10:00:04

I’ve been musing on the Sussex/Oprah thing. I have no patience with the whole caboodle, but it did make me think about conversations in my family around an expected baby. “Will he have his Mum’s blue-grey eyes, or his Dad’s hazel eyes?”, “I wonder if he’ll have red hair like his grandad?”, “Will he inherit his Dad’s big feet?” and so on. I can imagine a quite neutral conversation about skin colour in that kind of context. Or it could be quite noxious “I hope he doesn’t look mixed race” or “I don’t want a black grandchild”. Without some additional context, it’s hard to judge whether family conversations of this kind were racist or not. What do others think?

M0nica Tue 09-Mar-21 09:30:56

I agree with you Marthajolly1. It is actually racist to be embarrassed or uncomfortable about talking about the subject, unless you are prepared not to discuss how the child will look/looks as well.

It is not what you say but how you say it and the meaning behind it

We are getting positively Victorian in our hypocrisy. Nobody will say anything,or at least, only what is approved but underneath they are all thinking it.

Marthjolly1 Mon 08-Mar-21 19:06:58

'Geekesse' my thoughts exactly as your post.

Madgran77 Mon 08-Mar-21 18:34:02

As they gave no context to that discussion I dont feel able to comment really. Context is crucial if raising this type of conversation !

eazybee Mon 08-Mar-21 18:02:44

I have no idea who said what to whom because I am trying my hardest to avoid listening to the Markles' whingefest on every news bulletin, but doesn't it occur to anyone that to make accusations of racism guarantees instant publicity?

If Oprah were half the interviewer she is supposed to be she would have pursued this instead of allowing unsubstantiated allegations to lie unchallenged.

3nanny6 Mon 08-Mar-21 17:23:58

B9exchange and LauraNorder I see where you are coming from and I have posted most of my views and spoke of my daughter. The list is long and yet there is more for me : DS
met a Muslim Pakistani girl fifteen months ago her family accepted him and were not overly bothered that he was of Afro-Caribbean heritage. The girl he met is very forward and in lockdown she arranged a traditional Pakistani wedding which I heard nothing about until one hour before it took place so obviously I did not get to attend.
In the months following the wedding they had several arguments and my son had to be "interviewed" by her father and her brother and was told he must not argue. She is now
5 months pregnant and they are all getting on well. I have asked my son about some sort of meeting with her family
and he says they are old fashioned culture and I have heard no more. I am looking forward to what will be my fourth GC and no Pakistani culture will stop me being the grand-mother.

LauraNorder Mon 08-Mar-21 17:21:24

😂

NellG Mon 08-Mar-21 17:20:38

Ah, I thought so but didn't want to assume - I agree that there's no sign she'd want to do anything other than get everyone to the Mid Atlantic, scupper their boat and say Kate did it wink

LauraNorder Mon 08-Mar-21 17:14:19

Just a flippant attempt at humour NellG but with an implication that I can’t imagine Meghan even looking for middle ground.

grandmajet Mon 08-Mar-21 17:05:44

My eldest daughter and her husband have 2 children, one extremely fair, the other dark eyes, hair, golden skin, and they have an obviously Pakistani surname. Neither ourselves nor my son in law’s parents have ever felt anything other than love for the whole family and they themselves have not experienced any racism in their lives.
I believe modern day britain is well on the way to respect for all and hope this is allowed to continue.
I really hope LauraNorder is right and that the private conversation reported by Harry arose from concern, although I also hope that those concerns would have not been borne out in fact by some sections of our press.

NellG Mon 08-Mar-21 16:58:32

I was commenting in response to lemsip's comment about people seeing things differently and having different 'truths'. I wouldn't call them truths, they are perceptions. So I'm not sure what you mean LauraNorder - that I'm talking out of my posterior or that there can be no middle ground?

LauraNorder Mon 08-Mar-21 16:55:28

B9exchange, we have experienced this with our son’s in-laws.
They ‘interviewed’ our son at great length before meeting with us and expressing many doubts, including the difficulties future children would encounter. The pair eventually broke away from her family and married anyway, hence the flight to Australia, sadly they are now divorced but she has happily reconciled with her mother.

M0nica Mon 08-Mar-21 16:52:38

Kryptonite. I have just made the same comment on another thread!

LauraNorder Mon 08-Mar-21 16:50:01

NellG

There's always middle ground if people are willing to meet there.

Middle of the Atlantic then, between the devil and the deep blue sea

NellG Mon 08-Mar-21 16:45:21

There's always middle ground if people are willing to meet there.

lemsip Mon 08-Mar-21 16:39:05

trouble is that everyones truth is different. we all see things differently

B9exchange Mon 08-Mar-21 16:32:05

DS1 fell in love with an Indian girl he met at Uni. She is beautiful, and we welcomed her as would would anyone a son has fallen in love with. But her parents were horrified. Apparently marrying a white person is worse in their culture than marrying someone of lower caste, and her mother actually threatened to commit suicide if she didn't break off the relationship. Things have calmed down now, but DS1 will never be really approved of by his inlaws. Racism is not all one way.

Kryptonite Mon 08-Mar-21 16:17:28

I don't believe it either. I immediately thought it was a classic Prince Phillip gaff, but they have denied that. And also, what is meant by 'her truth'? Is that different from the actual truth?

BBbevan Mon 08-Mar-21 16:11:54

My GDs are mixed race. One has pale skin and light brown hair. The other had darker skin and very black hair. Their other grandparents favour the second one as she is ‘ more Asian ‘. Their words. To us they are just our beloved GDs

Missfoodlove Mon 08-Mar-21 15:54:10

The RF and the public have held Harry dear in our hearts and were thrilled he had found “the one”
I do not believe race was ever an issue.
It’s convenient now things are not exactly as Meghan wished.

Meghan and Harry are behaving like petulant teenagers and are on a destructive path.
It will not have a happy ending.

Regarding the colour of a mixed race child, we discussed how our GC may look, how is that not normal?
Would they have daddy’s height, mummy’s curls and would they be dark like daddy or look like mummy who is fair and freckled?

3nanny6 Mon 08-Mar-21 15:27:41

Summerlove agree with your post

The line "possibly having a child whose looks made that clear"
is an awful thing to say and I find that somewhat racist.
That is printed in Monicas post

Summerlove Mon 08-Mar-21 15:18:22

M0nica

Surely all this was implicit in most peoples delight at their engagement - that by marrying someone who was from a mixed heritage and possibly having a child whose looks made that clear, the Royal Family would be a symbol of the mixed culture of so many in this country.

The accusations of racism only seemed to appear after the decision to standback from the Royal Family

That’s...not even close to being true.

LauraNorder Mon 08-Mar-21 15:17:48

Deeda and BlueBelle, I understand what you’re saying when you say ‘who cares’, because we love them and nothing else should matter.
My point is that the people with the dark skin care. They care because they are the ones who are treated differently, the ones who suffer prejudice and no matter how much we love them and tell them their skin colour doesn’t matter, it does to them.

Peasblossom Mon 08-Mar-21 15:12:26

Why wouldn’t you chat together and say I wonder who theyre going to take after?

Or when they’re born say Oh just like....

Last year, at a funeral, my family met that of a long lost cousin. Almost the first thing we remarked on was that our eldest sons looked just the same, just like their great grandfather.

Consciously avoiding doing that with my second son, who looks like my husband’s family, would be- well racist, wouldn’t it?

Don’t mention he looks like his grandfather because ??????

3nanny6 Mon 08-Mar-21 15:01:45

Bluebelle ; No I am not about to jump on you for saying anything. I had the conversation with my daughter when she became pregnant and it was my daughter that started the conversation.
The reason the conversation started is because my daughters
partner is from a Pakistani background, and quite rightly she was talking about how her child would look. It was quite a light hearted conversation as my daughter pointed out to me saying "mum as long as my baby does not look full African I don't care." Obviously I pointed out to her to remember her own heritage as by saying that she was disrespecting herself.
Sometimes when talking to my own children if anything about colour comes up I say to them yes I know our household has got the league of nations in it can any of you get me a Chinese GC they know I am joking and my GC are loved by me so much I would not care if they were pink blue or yellow.

Lucca Mon 08-Mar-21 14:57:12

T’other one has gone