Ghislaine Maxwell’s prison experience ‘torture’

The treatment of prisoners in general is awful and the fact that she is on remand is even more worrying. I would say that about anyone to be honest.

suziewoozie

Judy54

Innocent until proven guilty. Whether on remand or serving a sentence no one should be kept in these conditions.

Well plenty are and therefore there’s no reason to treat her differently. I haven’t heard of any pre-arrest campaigns by her or her brother to improve the lot of prisoners either in the US or UK.

Of course there's no reason to treat her any differently to others held on remand. That doesn't mean you can't think those conditions are unacceptable for anyone. I think lots of high profile people become campaigners only when an issue becomes relevant to their own circumstances, or those of their family and friends. He has to realise she is such a flight risk she will be held on remand until her trial, and is a fool if he doesn't. He should equally assert that the conditions his sister is incarcerated under are not fit for anyone, not try to make a special case for her.

If I agree with a poster I just say so - I would say that qualifying agreement as you did would actually put hesitant posters off as it makes GN sound even more tribal.

I agree Suziewoozie, prison reform is never a popular subject politically, and sadly, even on GN, we have had lots of the 'prison is like a holiday camp' crap misinformation peddled by the tabloids and regurgitated by people who have no experience of the prison system. An added problem with US prisons is that they are chiefly privately owned and run I believe, therefore there is no incentive to rehabilitate, educate or even get people out of remand and into the courtroom. I would have more sympathy with Ian Maxwell's concerns if he had been talking about the thousands of other remand prisoners, some kept away from their children for months, rather than just complaining about the treatment of his privileged sister

GillT57

I agree Suziewoozie, prison reform is never a popular subject politically, and sadly, even on GN, we have had lots of the 'prison is like a holiday camp' crap misinformation peddled by the tabloids and regurgitated by people who have no experience of the prison system. An added problem with US prisons is that they are chiefly privately owned and run I believe, therefore there is no incentive to rehabilitate, educate or even get people out of remand and into the courtroom. I would have more sympathy with Ian Maxwell's concerns if he had been talking about the thousands of other remand prisoners, some kept away from their children for months, rather than just complaining about the treatment of his privileged sister

Agree absolutely Gill. Prison conditions are much more likely to be an issue if a privileged , well connected, white person is( unusually) at the receiving end. This case is of course caught up in the earlier failures to convict Epstein of the more serious charges years ago and then his ‘suicide’ when he was finally properly charged. They can’t afford to lose her now - and it’s very likely they would if she were released

Maybe there is no appetite for improving prison conditions because most people reserve their sympathies for the victims of crime rather than the perpetrators, despite all the inevitable cries from some quarters that it’s not their fault, they had a tough upbringing, society has failed them, they are drug addicts, alcoholics - we’ve heard it all before.

Meanwhile, long after prisoners have served their often derisory short sentences, their victims continue to suffer, often for the rest of their lives.

Personally I wish our prisons were as tough as the US ones, but no doubt they are on Joe Biden’s to do list.

...... she could have left America in the year before she was arrested, but did not....
eazybee, this is probably because she thought she would not be found in her isolated hideaway

Well, for starters, she is not on her yacht any more with staff at her beck & call. How notorious have fallen... She can pass the time penning "Autobiography". It will make a fascinating reading not only to the public, but to the prosecutors & judges, too.

I think she is a flight risk - she has said she will place her money under the control of US authorities, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have money stashed away in other countries - and I am sure there are many influential friends who could spirit her away.

As for the conditions she is living in - do we have any proof of what her brother is saying? Are her conditions worse than any other prisoner? I am sure she is finding the meals inedible because she no longer has a personal chef.

Jennifereccles having concerns about the conditions in which a remand prisoner is being held does not mean I have more sympathy for perpetrators of crime than I do for the victims. As for your comments about drug addicts, alcoholics, those with a chaotic upbringing.......I can't even be bothered to try and make you understand.

Is she in a prison in a peaty area? If so, the "brown water" is natural and perfectly drinkable- and in some places the norm for many people who are NOT in prison. Inedible food should not be given to anyone, even convicted prisoners

Maybe her definition of inedible is rather different to the average prisoners

Oh dear what a shame.......

Oh I understand perfectly well GillT57

I am sure everyone understands how all these excuses are continually trotted out by the criminals’ human rights lawyers but they are just that- excuses.

She is in MDC Brooklyn.
In 2019, one former warden, Cameron Lindsay said that "The M.D.C. was one of the most troubled, if not the most troubled facility in the Bureau of Prisons
According to Wikki.

I think prisons in America are even worse than here. I think that anyone who knows anything about the prison system here in the UK knows it needs serious money to really work with people to give them a better chance of rehabilitation.
Our recidivism rate is shocking.

As to Maxwell... yes, I personally think she's guilty however I still feel that everyone should be considered innocent until they are found to be guilty. I believe she is in appalling conditions - and so (probably) is everyone else there. It is a prison with many, many charges against it and staff have repeatedly been taken to court for breaching protocols, for "punishments" and for not implementing changes laid down by prosecutors. This prison is not normally used for long stays - only for short remand periods and short sentences. She should have been sent somewhere else if they were going to take this long getting to trial. I have read a former inmate say that people are allowed out of the cell for 30 mins three times a week to make phone calls, shower and talk with their legal team (all in the 30 mins).
Detainees at MDC Brooklyn have NO access to outdoor space though there is a high wall with a metal grill at the top in one area.

Do you remember the US prison that went a week or more with no heating about two years ago when it was freezing cold outside? The one where prisoners were sending SOS messages? Well this was it. Anyone who complained was sent to solitary.

There is less oversight of prisons in America than the UK too as they have different jurisdictions.

As a general point, it seems counter productive to not try to help people move forward into better lives. If we make it hard for prisoners to learn anything new and we subject them to degrading conditions it's no wonder so many have little regard for "society".

GillT57

Jennifereccles having concerns about the conditions in which a remand prisoner is being held does not mean I have more sympathy for perpetrators of crime than I do for the victims. As for your comments about drug addicts, alcoholics, those with a chaotic upbringing.......I can't even be bothered to try and make you understand.

I couldn't agree more. Remand should definitely not be punitive. As I said upthread, I don't think that prisons should be (in themselves) either. Others may disagree about prisons for convicted criminals, but how can anyone argue that remand centres or remand wings should be anything other than places where people awaiting trial are staying until they have a chance to make their case? To do so makes a nonsense of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

I'm not remotely in sympathy with GM, and would be more than surprised if she is not guilty as charged (regardless of the outcome of the trial), but the system has to work on principle, not based on individual cases.

My problem with this issue is the bleating of the Maxwells about prison conditions they couldn’t give a stuff about if it didn’t affect them. I also wonder if they ever think about those poor defrauded Mirror pensioners.

No one should be kept in such conditions, but I do wonder if it is related to what happened to Epstein. Is this place the safest possible for her? Is there a danger if she was moved to somewhere less constricting her life might be threatened?

Was she campaigning to improve the conditions of prisoners on remand before this? Campaigning for the rights of women and girls?
No?

Then I am not sorry for her.

I also wonder if they ever think about those poor defrauded Mirror pensioners.
No, I doubt it.
It wasn't just those who worked directly for the Daily Mirror, there were other subsidiaries too which were part of the Mirror Group and lost their pensions, not to mention shareholders in the scheme.

Callistemon

Was she campaigning to improve the conditions of prisoners on remand before this? Campaigning for the rights of women and girls?
No?

Then I am not sorry for her.

Oh, come on. People don't campaign for everything they hope to be protected from - we can only do so much.

I don't campaign for prisoners' rights (do you?) - does that mean that I deserve to be imprisoned in bad conditions before I am found guilty? The system has to protect everyone - not just campaigners, as do all public systems.

Your logic suggests that only campaigners for, say, cancer research should benefit from that, but not from heart disease research unless they campaign for that too, and so on.

Doodledog I agree. I think we campaign for things that touch us.

trisher

No one should be kept in such conditions, but I do wonder if it is related to what happened to Epstein. Is this place the safest possible for her? Is there a danger if she was moved to somewhere less constricting her life might be threatened?

I’m sure it is - they can’t afford another ‘suicide’ so she’s under tight control inside. They daren’t let her out on bail because she’s a flight risk and/or there are plenty of well connected powerful people who would like her to ‘disappear ’.

NotSpaghetti

Doodledog I agree. I think we campaign for things that touch us.

I don’t think you can speak for everyone - many people campaign for causes that will never directly impact them as well as causes that may or have.

There are innocent people living in far worse conditions through no fault of their own, Doodledog and I try to do my bit for just a tiny proportion of them.

So no. But innocent until proved guilty so she should have access to fresh clean water and an hour's exercise a day.
As for edible food - it depends on the definition of edible.