Seems we are not unlocking.

Elegran

Did you expect these measures to work instantly, even on those who were not using them?

These are precautions against the virus, not a universal weedkiller sprayed over it to kill it off from the roots. They each do something toward slowing down the rate at which people get infected,which lessens the number of people who have it, which itself slows down the rate of infection.

But there is always someone who believes that if something doesn't kill 100% of germs with one application, there is no point in using it. By not taking precautions, they contribute to the problem - which then makes them feel justified in saying that the precautions are useless!

You can blame whoever you like for the fact that variations are around, but going straight back to mixing with hundreds of people a day - without taking all the precautions we can - is a certain way of having another wave of cases.

The more people who believe all the crap about governments just wanting to control us the sooner that wave will happen. And has it occurred to them that deliberately NOT doing sensible things "because you were told to" is like a child playing chicken across a busy road, because he has been told not to?

Good post Elegran.

janejudge quite a lot of puerile me,me,me about it seems.?

Ellan

So the 'irreversible' was indeed reversible
I feel sorry for businesses who have geared up for this
Johnson should have never given dates, he said that the Government would be led by the science and should listen to their advice and act accordingly
But he tells lies, constantly...

the dates given were AT THE EARLIEST....does no one actually listen?

There does appear to be a lot of regional differences. I actually know people who have been admitted to hospital with covid in the last few weeks, they are all in the 45-55 age bracket. All had received one vaccine but not two. All have the new variant which is more resistant to the vaccine and spreading quicker, within schools here it seems. It is very close to home for me as kids in my youngest class have tested positive and I have made the decision not to bring my daughter home (disabled/vulnerable) as planned tomorrow. I am quite gobsmacked by some of the comments on this thread

In case anyone hadn’t noticed the Euros started last night, players along with physios, doctors, coaches, nutritionists etc., are travelling from stadium to stadium and in the next round country to country as will the fans following their teams progress throughout the competition.

If it’s OK and safe for them and for good measure I will include the G7 circus and all that entails it should be safe for us to go about our daily lives.

In Dec/Jan it was thought important to postpone 2nd jabs for the over 70s in order to give more first jabs overall, indeed the extra efficacy of a 12-week delay was widely trumpeted. Now it's deemed equally important to prioritise 2nd jabs to the 50-yr-olds over first jabs to the under 30s. I don't think this flagrant inconsistency has ever been explained. If it's that the -30s are unlikely to become seriously ill and thus a burden on the NHS why should waiting for them to be vaccinated delay the lifting of restrictions.

Did you expect these measures to work instantly, even on those who were not using them?

These are precautions against the virus, not a universal weedkiller sprayed over it to kill it off from the roots. They each do something toward slowing down the rate at which people get infected,which lessens the number of people who have it, which itself slows down the rate of infection.

But there is always someone who believes that if something doesn't kill 100% of germs with one application, there is no point in using it. By not taking precautions, they contribute to the problem - which then makes them feel justified in saying that the precautions are useless!

You can blame whoever you like for the fact that variations are around, but going straight back to mixing with hundreds of people a day - without taking all the precautions we can - is a certain way of having another wave of cases.

The more people who believe all the crap about governments just wanting to control us the sooner that wave will happen. And has it occurred to them that deliberately NOT doing sensible things "because you were told to" is like a child playing chicken across a busy road, because he has been told not to?

I'd like to know an approximation of how many people have, in fact, had COVID19 in this country, when it did arrive and how long antibodies to it might last.
Would any natural antibodies developed + two vaccines offer more protection and for how long?
What will happen in countries which have had strict lockdown, relatively few cases but slow vaccination programmes? Will it all start up again in those countries as variants and spread again?

Can we live for years locking down and unlocking again?
Yes, some of us could find it an acceptable way to live but is this fair on our young people, our children and their futures?

Urmstongran

Could this government’s nervousness around releasing lockdown attributable to their not actually being confident in the vaccine’s efficacy?

No Urm, the vaccine is showing excellent efficacy in people who have had two vaccines. The people getting Covid now are, as I understand it, mainly younger unvaccinated people, or people who have been vaccinated only once. There have been a small number, 7% I think, who have contracted Covid despite having been fully vaccinated. It would be interesting and pertinent to know a little more about these people. Are they extremely old and frail for example, or have they got underlying conditions?

Urmstongran

I dare say you’re right JE. I just worry that when each new variant pops up we will still be constrained. I feel sorry for hoteliers, the wedding businesses - caterers, photographers, the whole shebang really connected - the airline industry. Summertime is their best time (usually) for revenue. Miss this summer (again) and many businesses might go bust.

I suppose we just have to hope that vaccinating as many people as possible works in the end.

No there should be no reason to lockdown each time a new variant pops up because we can assume on recent evidence that everyone vaccinated will have a good deal of immunity. If not we can assume that the booster will be tweaked to take account of the new variant.

The reason we are continuing to be careful is look after our young. They looked after us last year by complying with the lockdown rules, now it is our turn to return the compliment until they have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

Of course if a variant pops up that can escape the vaccine then it a whole different ball game??

maddyone maybe if hospitals weren't underfunded we might have been ok

Agree that if 21 June is allowed to slip it will be postponed for ever - another will be seen on the horizon, children, cats and dogs will be added to the list, and the summer will have gone.

Lucca

Biscuitmuncher you have implied that you are against lockdowns, restrictions and vaccinations. I’ve yet to hear how you would suggest dealing with Covid ??

I, and others, are waiting for your reply to this extremely valid question Biscuitmuncher.
I’ll repeat, how would you suggest that Covid was dealt with in the UK?

I dare say you’re right JE. I just worry that when each new variant pops up we will still be constrained. I feel sorry for hoteliers, the wedding businesses - caterers, photographers, the whole shebang really connected - the airline industry. Summertime is their best time (usually) for revenue. Miss this summer (again) and many businesses might go bust.

I suppose we just have to hope that vaccinating as many people as possible works in the end.

it not I

Urmstongran

Meanwhile the world leaders fly into the G7 summit with no quarantining, no social distancing or masks, Macron merrily throwing his arm around Biden. Clearly the rules only apply to us peasants!

I understand that they are all having Covid tests every day.
Not that I agree with the Summit taking place this year but the pledge re vaccines is one positive to come out of I.

We cannot carry on for years locking down and unlocking, we have to vaccinate and find a normality to life again.

GrannyGravy13

If the hospitalisation numbers remain flat, as do the deaths I do not think there is any justification to extend lockdown measures until July.

There was a report out this week stating 8 out of 10 adults in the U.K. now have Covid anti-bodies.

We have to live alongside Covid and future variants as we do other viruses. The hospitality and entertainment industry is on its knees as are many small businesses.

Speaking to Mums outside school there seems to be a general hesitancy regarding giving young children the Covid vaccine.

Not sure what the solution is but equally I am pretty sure we cannot go through endless cycles of limited freedom - lockdown- limited freedom for the foreseeable future.

The 4 key stages for unlocking are not yet met. In fact only 2 out of 4 are definitely met.

If the hospitalisation numbers remain flat, as do the deaths I do not think there is any justification to extend lockdown measures until July.

There was a report out this week stating 8 out of 10 adults in the U.K. now have Covid anti-bodies.

We have to live alongside Covid and future variants as we do other viruses. The hospitality and entertainment industry is on its knees as are many small businesses.

Speaking to Mums outside school there seems to be a general hesitancy regarding giving young children the Covid vaccine.

Not sure what the solution is but equally I am pretty sure we cannot go through endless cycles of limited freedom - lockdown- limited freedom for the foreseeable future.

Frustrating though any delay will be, I think the key word for the PM is ‘irreversible’
He has said this on a number of occasions and I think, along with the four key points needing to be met, that will feature heavily in his decision.

He won’t please everyone, and it’s possible to argue the case from both sides, but at the moment it looks as if the cautious approach will win.

Meanwhile the world leaders fly into the G7 summit with no quarantining, no social distancing or masks, Macron merrily throwing his arm around Biden. Clearly the rules only apply to us peasants!

Urmstongran

^ug I think if you were sensible you would ask for that post to be withdrawn^

Upon reflection you are quite right WW. It was a silly knee-jerk comment and I have asked the mods to remove it.

Good for you

I'm not talking about letting people off with having big parties and the like PippaZ. But I think I'm right in saying that no government has ever prevented us from going into each other's homes, from seeing our family members, from visiting elderly relatives in care homes. At the same time as letting us watch footballers hug each other on TV every night. And no government has placed controls on us moving about our own country, not for hundreds of years.

I know all these things were necessary, and I also believe that we need to ease restrictions prudently. But if we have to go back to restrictive lockdowns again, people will not comply. Criminalising people who are at the end of their tether is not the way of a civilised society.

PippaZ to me it’s not about obeying laws our Company fortunately has not been adversely affected. But many have as I pointed out social distancing makes their business unviable or running just to break even
If death rates stay low as they are how can we keep society as a whole under continuing restrictions
These people are not idiots but they need to make a living

Doodledog

Biscuitmuncher

It amazes me that anyone fell for the government's crap in the first place! Control, that's what this is all about. They know they can tell us to do anything and we will do it

Why do you think the government, and other governments across the world, with different world views and outlooks have all got together to ask populations to stay indoors (or limit social behaviour)?

What is to be gained?

I am far from a supporter of Johnson and his team of fools, but I just can't see why people are prepared to believe that this is some sort of social control for the sake of it.

Yes, cannot understand peoples reasoning about this, Social Control, have always looked at it as trying to protect people, not deliberately damaging peoples health and the economy, or world Gov would be guilty of the same.Sister in Germany has had even more restrictions, appointments and testing before hairdresser, nail bars, dress shops. So it’s not just us. Although must say stopping flights from India, red country at same time as Pakistan etc, would have possibly lessened the impact of this variant, still we are were we are. Vaccinations are proceeding, and people seem to be responding well to the call to have it done. Personally, as now out and about little bit more, testing twice weekly.

Alegrias1

^The main reason is to stay safe, I for one will not take any risks, it isn’t worth it.^

We need to appreciate that we will never be "safe" again. At some point the level of mortality and illness from this virus will be similar to background levels for other illnesses. There is a trade off between being "safe" and actually living a life.

I'm not suggesting dropping all precautions right now, before somebody tries to suggest that I am, and I think any more easing of restrictions should be delayed for a while. But at some point, we are going to have to start living something like a normal life again.

I expect they were getting jaded when the bombs were dropping too Alegrais but the majority know there is no alternative. Our parents had all the same false promises "it will be over by Christmas", etc., and the same phoney war where people thought they had got away with it not being as bad as they expected it to be only to find it getting very much worse.

For once I feel Johnson is right. He should do all he can to not undo the moves we have made forward. However, neither he nor we control the virus so we have no choice but to deal with the situation until it is under the best control we can get.

I don't think punishing people will be seen as unreasonable if it's logical. Throwing an illegal rave would not seem a good idea to all but a few, I imagine and the government does have people to guide them if they will listen. This was never going to be an 18-month battle; I am staggered that some believed it was. And "normal" will not be the same but that doesn't mean that in some ways it can't be better.

We've been told how wonderful the British are for years. I'm afraid some will have to live up to it and don the stiff upper lip.