Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

No, not if preferential treatment only applies when all else is equal, and a choice has to be made - the sort of situation where one sex's rights conflict with the other's. There is still a lot of levelling up to do.

In what sense is what you describe 'feminism'? Equality is a theoretical concept when there has been systemic prejudice for so long.

GagaJo thank you for the demonstration of your moral compass, even hemmed round with “In this case”.
But GJ there is no equality in what you suggest. I understand why you can’t see that. I’m beginning finally to suspect why trisher takes that stance.
Of course you’re actively happy when men join your feminist fold. Your feminism appears not to be about women.
I’d be actively happy for men, women or even trans to claim to be feminists if they were there to understand and protect the rights of women instead of projecting the idea that all women are equal, but trans are more equal than others.

GagaJo

Nope. Equality. That is the beginning and the end of feminism for me. I'm actively happy when men join the feminist fold. I'm NOT referring to trans women there. Just regular CIS men. Not putting them first, or front and centre, just equal members.

I really don't see the point of replacing patriarchy with matriarchy. It's just taking one set of dominance with another.

Yes
So many things in life are dictated by gender, how we are expected to act, what social life we are expected to have, what clothes we should wear, when really in all these cases gender is irrelevant. If segregation by gender was limited to the very few times that it actually matters there would far fewer arguments and people would get along much better.

I agree, Jackiest.

If people just ignored gender-based expectations and did their own thing there would be fewer people feeling that they are in the ‘wrong’ body, as there would be ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ way to behave.

The board didn't specifically ask whether MW was a natal woman, because they would then have been accused of sexism. ( ^"It isn't a lie by omission if it isn't something the board weren't interested in."^)

However, had I been MW, I would have considered it to be under a general heading of "Things that could have a bearing, direct or indirect, positive or negative, on my approach to this work." As such I would have mentioned it, and in the interview I would have emphasised the positive possibilities of my experiences. The fact is that MW didn't mention a significant fact in their personal sexual/gender development which could colour their views on a sexual matter.

But we are being told to abandon the very few situations where it actually matters.

The job advert, which MW applied to, stated that the job was open to females only - in line with the Equality Act.
MW applied and interviewed and 'did not say' all while knowing that his appearance and manner gave the impression that he was female.
That was deception i.e. a lie.

Gender does matter in this job and it is probably a much harder job for MW to do than for someone born a woman but the decision should be made on how well MW can do the job compared to other applicants not on MW's gender.

Her own sexual/gender journey is one of the factors that the interview board could have included in all the other things they considered, had that been available to them, but it would not have been the sole deciding factor.

Welcome to the discussion Jackiest.
If it had been declared, that’s a valid point. But if someone is deceitful about one thing then the likelihood of further deceit is greater. The choice by MW to say and do things that were said shows it to have been wrong.

MW probably thinks of herself as a woman so from her point of view there was no deceit.

Well I could think of myself as a qualified electrician and fail to mention it at an interview.

Owing to copious amounts of time spent in hospitals I’ve often thought I am a good doctor.

Anybody want to be treated by me? Book your consultation now?

Callistemon

trisher

I think he needs to be in a secure unit somewere Callistemon (you never ased me where I would put him) possibly somewhere where he can receive proper psychiatric care. I certainly never advocated putting him in a women's prison. I just pointed out other difficulties.

Who?

Emily Claire Hari, the 50-year-old leader of the group ‘White Rabbit,’ who was previously known as Michael Hari

As far as women's spaces are concerned I still cannot understand why it is transwomen who anyone is targetting about these. Such spaces are protected under the law. Transwomen don't make the law. If the law isn't being properly applied whose fault is that? Transwomen don't administer the law. If there isn't enough funding for women's services or transgender prisons whose fault is that? Transwomen aren't responsible for the funding.
Anyone who was truly feminist would see through the attempts to set one minority against another and be out there campaigning against the white male privilege which still controls those things.
It's interesting as well if you look at the majority of women involved in promoting what they term gender critical feminism (which just tries to make bigotry acceptable) they are for the most part successful white women who could be described as being part of that privilege having gained a foothold in the establishment. I know there may be one or two who aren't but they are a minority.
Why not instead of misgendering people like MW simply go out and campaign for real changes in women's services and real funding for prisons and refuges. Then everyone including abused transpeople might have a place of safety to turn to.

Please stop that. All four court cases that are ongoing or have been completed on this issue involved women of colour.

Oh and lesbians of course.

If you care about lesbians this is an interesting read www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/17/terf-gender-critical-feminism-movement-lesbian-cult-amy-dyess-transphobia/

trisher

Callistemon

trisher

I think he needs to be in a secure unit somewere Callistemon (you never ased me where I would put him) possibly somewhere where he can receive proper psychiatric care. I certainly never advocated putting him in a women's prison. I just pointed out other difficulties.

Who?

Emily Claire Hari, the 50-year-old leader of the group ‘White Rabbit,’ who was previously known as Michael Hari

Sorry, I must have missed that.

I didn't know why you said Callistemon (you never ased me where I would put him) as I have no clue what that was about.

Peasblossom

“I expect there are extremists in any group”.

If you’d like to Google terms like ‘lesbian erasure” “gay erasure” trisher you’ll see that it’s not just a few extremist, but a stated trans policy that has led to demonstrations throughout Europe, America and Australia.

You may remember replying this to my asking your thoughts on the Trans lesbian/gay erasure agenda.

So yes I guess there are extremists in any group.

Transwomen don't make the law. If the law isn't being properly applied whose fault is that? Transwomen don't administer the law. If there isn't enough funding for women's services or transgender prisons whose fault is that? Transwomen aren't responsible for the funding

This sounds like Transwomen have no moral compass of their own and will break any law if they believe they might get away with it.

simply go out and campaign for real changes in women's services and real funding for prisons and refuges

oh dear, I think many of us thought we had done enough fighting and campaigning for women only services decades ago.
who knew that men who declare themselves women would want to take this away again. But as individuals I do not care if transwomen enter a female space. It is the behaviour and attitudes of many TRAs that have spoilt this.

You really have no idea have you trisher? Are you really so unaware that you don't know about the abuse and threats that homosexual men and women have faced from transgender people just because they don't want to date or have sex with them? Have you not seen anything in any of the online feminist communities where lesbians report of being approached by transwomen to have sex with them but, when they reject their advances, they're accused of being "transphobic"? You appear to be so tunnel vision in what transmen/women should have/need/want/demand/deserve that you appear to be completely blinkered or unaware it's not just natal women that they're making overarching demands from; it's the gay community too. You really need to do more research and educate yourself.

simply go out and campaign for real changes in women's services and real funding for prisons and refuges

You must have missed or dismissed this, but this has been addressed several times on this thread and was actually referred to on page 1 of this thread, on 12th August by Zennomore However, I've copied it again for you now: it's like groundhog day

A further issues is that (in Scotland), Scottish Women’s Aid who historically provide refuges for women and children are being passed over for funding because they are safe spaces for WOMEN and therefore seen as not being inclusive. Some local authorities here have awarded the tender to SERCO instead. SWA have historically been “doing a good job” however SERCO haven’t been doing a good job in other services they run. It feels like a downgrading of already underfunded services for women, it’s not a huge leap to feel that Women are being downgraded.

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

It was also addressed again on the 13th August:

In February we reported on Monklands Women’s Aid having its funding withdrawn by North Lanarkshire Council after 40 years of providing specialist domestic abuse services to women and children. The council awarded its new £1.4 million contract to an organisation called Sacro which is not a specialist in domestic violence nor local to the Lanarkshire area. Council Officers said "that contracting a new service was ‘Informed by the findings of gaps in services with respect to specific groups including LGBT+’ and that Sacro ‘will better help male victims’." Monklands was only one of three women’s sector services in Lanarkshire which lost out to Sacro after their funding was cut.

Well, you’ll never guess who was a director of Sacro until March this year…? That’s right, Arun Gopinath. Arun ‘he/him’ Gopinath is, according to some sources, Wadhwa’s partner/husband.

So, to sum up, funding to the tune of millions of ££££ is being given to only those refuges that agree, no matter how reluctantly, to admit trans women into their safe spaces for natal women who are at risk from men.

To suggest that the reason that vulnerable natal women don't have single sex safe spaces because they've "failed to campaign for it" is a disgraceful suggestion and only demonstrates how poorly informed about this subject you really are.

Actually the funding of prisons is a wider issue than just a trans/women's one. And you might well wonder about awards to SERCO which was acquired by Group4 which had an abysmal record and has been fined. This is interesting reading www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/portals/0/documents/private%20punishment%20who%20profits.pdf
Or how complaints about its behaviour have been ignored over the years www.ft.com/content/ea29e020-9940-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b
It isn't only women who are affected by these things its all minority groups.

Chewbacca, thank you for that post. I echo all you said.
trisher, for the nth time, I’m not against all transwomen. They can be big, strong, small, softly spoken and very kind or not.
I’m only against those TW whose speech, behaviour and actions show them to be the men they really are. Transwomen could do so much good if they also spoke out against those TW who are causing the problems related to treatment and rights of natal women. Instead, unless I have missed a page about transwomen protesting against the erosion of rights of the sex they aspire to represent, they allow it to happen and even as I’ve seen on here, encourage it.
I’d suggest you read the other posts on here, but your mind seems to be so closed, so ready to divert from the subject or to accept that lies by omission are OK, that it wouldn’t do any good.