Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

I don't ^ castigate anybody who thinks they can identify MW's motives^ I post inaccuracies and false assumpions people have made. Like she counsells rape victims or she will force rape victims to reframe their trauma. Neither of which is true.

trisher
Free speech is what we all have on here. Each of us has the freedom to say what we feel and you have made the most of that on this thread, posting about what you see as others’ lies whilst supporting the right of someone who has very publicly lied by omission.
Your freedom of speech allowed you to say that an applicant for a job had no need to declare a fact that immediately made the application a lie and later add that a s/he knew a trustee related to that job who knew s/he was a TW. In most jobs, knowledge of anything about a candidate relating to the job should be declared.
Your freedom of speech allows you to comment on low percentages as a reason for it not to be important that a woman’s concern is not important.
Your freedom of speech allows you to say that what others see as visible truths and concerns are ‘unbelievable’.
My feminism and my right to freedom of speech is just as valid as yours and no less believable.
I can’t be accused of misgendering someone I perceive as a man because of his actions and his demands about what women should accept.
If I referred to you as ‘he’ that might well be misgendering, because unless you declare otherwise , you are a GN member. Most people on GN appear to be female. Those that aren’t, often declare their position, but are under no compulsion to do so and I would refer to them as she unless told otherwise.
Your excuse of being raised in a patriarchal society makes your reluctance to support women’s rights all the more confusing.
Why would you not support the rights women have fought so hard to get and to retain on the grounds that you think all TWAW, even when you are given examples of why through their speech, actions and behaviour, some TWANW. (Transwomen are not women, in case you can’t work out the acronym.)
Re the young feminists you know-of course they will support the same views on inclusion as you do. You’re older than they are and have said you can be antagonistic.

In general I am not antagonistic, but in the same way, the young feminists of my acquaintance, varying from teens to 40’s are currently very worried about what they see as the encroachment of actively male selfID’d TW into their world.
They are certainly more knowledgeable about transgender than I was at their age, but equally more questioning about how the role of women is being impacted and implications of irreversible treatment versus self ID.

Mollygo I haven't questioned anyone's right to free speech. I simply compared the posts which contributed "Good post" to the chanting of the crowd which could of course be described as free peech as well. You are entitled to say what you like just don't claim falsehoods are true.
I was much more antagonistic in my youth when I was fighting for rights. My young feminist friends have helped me see that it isn't much use just replacing one set of controlling people with another who use the same tactics, and that acceptance and tolerance are not weaknesses but different strengths.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

My young feminist friends have helped me see that it isn't much use just replacing one set of controlling people with another who use the same tactics, and that acceptance and tolerance are not weaknesses but different strengths.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I find the TRA movement so unpleasant. It shows no tolerance at all, and refuses to accept any viewpoint other than TWAW. Their willingness to resort to violence and coercion is indicative of a tentative relationship with the truth - people who have a strong and reasonable argument are usually able to persuade others without bullying.

The 'chanting' agreement (which is simply like-minded posters calmly expressing agreement on a discussion board) clearly distresses/rattles you, yet you see no issue with a man needing police protection from baying crowds - can't you see the irony?

Doodledog nothing said by anyone on this thread distresses me. In order to be distressed I would have to regard the views expressed as having some value.
I find most of the posts rather ridiculous and amusing..
MollygoI can distinguish people who intend others harm and many of them are not transpeople.
This idea of patriarchal control through the trans movement conveniently forgets about transmen, who according to your beliefs are really women, so if the trans movement gains power women will be involved in it.

Lovely diversion Trish!
Do transmen currently try to usurp men’s rights? Do you think they’d be successful against your patriarchal society.

When you don't have a valid answer or argument that can hold water, obviously have no understanding of science and ignore difficult questions, just resort to the inane retort I find most of the posts rather ridiculous and amusing..

I can distinguish people who intend others harm and many of them are not transpeople.

And you find our posts ridiculous and amusing? That is yet another meaningless statement.

The point is not that anyone things either that most harmful people are transpeople or that most transpeople are harmful. That is what that you have failed to grasp over and over again.

The point is that as long as men can access female spaces simply by saying that they are female, and get jobs dealing with vulnerable women by lying about their sex, then women will be at risk. Not most of us, but some of us, and as a feminist (ie someone who wants to see equality between the sexes) would think that anyone being at risk is too many.

That does not equate to us believing that men are 'lining up' to attack us, or that we are bigoted, transphobes, liars, stupid, racists, Nazis or any of the other names you have called us. It means that we support the rights of women.

Totally agree Doodledog

It means that we support the rights of women. And homosexuals; who are also being marginalised, hounded and bullied by extreme trans rights activists.

Rosie51 and Doodledog thank you for having the knowledge and the energy to respond.
trisher has never grasped the fact, on this or any thread that no one thinks the most harmful people are transpeople or that most transpeople are harmful.

Mollygo no you simply misgender them, blame them for things beyond their control, post misinformation about them blame them for things they haven't done and then pretend they are a threat. You can't even acknowledge the good things they have done or that they have a valid point of view.
So all the people attending Pride are now extreme trans right activists who knew? Most are just trans sympathisers who recognise prejudice when they see it.

YOU are the one with prejudice trisher, no one else.

On Twitter just now:

1/ Let us be clear. If you're condoning what happened at Manchester Pride this is what you're endorsing. Alexander had his hat stolen from his head. That's the crime of robbery. He was & hounded by a mob, that's various public order offences.

2/ He was denied the right to participate in gay political activity because he supports a registered Charity the Commission responsible said categorically is not a "hate group". So you're supporting breaching his human rights to freedom of thought and expression.

3/ Because he's a gay man going to gay pride you're also targeting a person on the basis of their same sex attraction which is a protected characteristic by s.12 of the Equality Act 2010.

4/ Because you're targeting this gay man because he believes something he's entitled to (because democracies don't have state mandated beliefs) you're also harassing him for the s.9 protected characteristic of belief.

5/ More generally, you're now part of a mob. It's an online mob and it's doing digital queer bashing. You've likely been radicalised by "no debate" so now you simply can't function happily with democratic norms.

6/ What you're supporting is something that has (rightly) utterly horrified people outside the gender debate. You're supporting a brave man just trying to exercise freedom of speech being terrified by a mob. This is how tyrannies start.

7/ They start with people like you sweeping serious crimes and breaches of human rights aside "for the greater good". People are watching this and we've had enough of this petty dictatorship.

8/ #HatsAgainstHate - Alexander's hat was stolen - show your support for @ALLIANCELGB, use this appalling event to strengthen the only charity that actually supports same sex attracted people.

From: twitter.com/Jebadoo2/status/1431955263632941065?s=19

Before today's appalling act of violent bullying and thuggery, against a gay man at a Pride event, simply because his t shirt didn't include "trans" in the logo, I have changed my mind about trans activists.
Like several others on this thread, I thought that although trans activists were demanding, they were not vexatious or physically dangerous. I no longer believe that to be the case. I believe that, they are a misogynistic, homophobic group who are prepared to resort to violence and thuggery against women and homosexuals who do not give them unlimited license to do as they want. They are, imo, far from the oppressed, misunderstood underdogs who are just looking for a place in society in which to quietly live their lives. Today's events at Manchester Pride has made me see their true agenda. If that makes me transphobic; so be it. I'd rather be that than included with the knuckle dragging supporters and allies of a bullying and intimidating section of society. No matter how "marginalised" they think they are.

Testosterone fuelled?

Very probably Adeline. Today's events have certainly made me see things differently.

You are the clearest example of bigotry I’ve come across trisher so perhaps I’m fortunate.
You are the one with prejudices.

You can call it what you want.
You accept lies in order to support your views.
You ignore the harm that transactivists cause.
You belittle the harm done to a gay man because it doesn’t fit with your perceptions although you very nearly admitted your response was wrong.

You refuse to acknowledge that not all TW back the interests of the gender they claim to want to be and that a minority are actively against women’s rights.

You refuse to acknowledge that more rational people like me don’t see all TW as a threat but they are aware of the damage that some TW are insidiously and sometimes blatantly trying to bring about.

You refuse to acknowledge the biological fact that TWANW.

Then you make paranoid comments about other posters trying to silence you when no such attempt has been made.

If you were anything other than a poster on here, you would be doing more to hamper the acceptance that those TW who have been living and who want to live without confrontation than to promote their acceptance.

That is SO rude Mollygo.

Seriously. Hold different opinions. But there is really no need to get so personal or offensive.

Try reading the other comments GJ.

Mollygo just ignore her, she stated before she only reads the last couple of posts, so has no idea of the insults her buddy has been casting around on previous pages. Another one who doesn't understand science and supports "no debate".

Thanks for the good advice Rosie51. I was thinking about wine when I noticed she’d added something.

I always keep a copy of whatever I post. Strange how someone took offence at something less offensive than they posted.

Mollygo I was amazed to see you'd had a deletion, couldn't remember the post, but I was certain it was nothing to be offended by........? Some people can't cope with being challenged, so I'm imagining that's what you did.

I'm sure that's sarcasm Rosie51.