The unvaccinated

Surely sometimes we have to do something for the greater good. By refusing to be vaccinated the risk of becoming seriously ill with Covid is far greater. The NHS is already overstretched with huge waiting lists and I think taking up a bed in ICU when it could have been avoided by being vaccinated is selfish.

“Over 60% of those double vaccinated had been hospitalised “?? topcat23

Really? Just think again about what you said. It’s nonsense.

I think you misread that. She wrote “ over 60% of those hospitalized had been double vaccinated ”!!

The article I copied though explains more.

Sometimes though in doing the greater good we can lose sight of the way to treat people.

*Itsawelshthing
Germanshepherdsmum*

^Ah, these healthy people, can’t happen to me. The story about the hairdresser is amazing. She wouldn’t have me on her client list. Poor father. Still wondering if Itsawelshthing is still working as a carer. I’m one of the ‘no jab, no job’ brigade, especially with carers and NHS staff. X days to show proof of vaccination or collect your P45.

I will happily collect my P45.^

Those who would "happily collect their P45s' in this situation should be reminded that if one chooses to make themselves unemployed they will receive no government monetary assistance for several months, so they would just be cutting off their nose to spite their face basically.

Probably best to send all the no-vaxxers to the Isle of Wight, eh, keep them away from us public-spirited folks? Send them some tents to live in and make it like the Hunger Games.

Mind you we'd have to evacuate the current residents.....maybe St Kilda would be better?

A Nurse's anti vaxxer mother died of covid...

www.independent.co.uk/news/nurse-mum-dies-covid-misinformation-b1906536.html

Apologies, yes I did misread it.
A whole different meaning of course but the general theme of the post was rather anti-vaccine.

I should have read it properly though!

I would prefer it is all my daughter's support workers were vaccinated but I also appreciate they work for low pay and have had a terrible manager now changed, thank god so we just do what we do to protect everyone as much as possible given the circumstances. They all wear masks inside all the time and other PPE is used doing personal care and they stick to a cleaning rota.

There are other issues at play here too. I have to have faith my dd's human rights and right to life are respected within the law and within working guidelines. That should not include taking away someone else's human rights.

As an aside, I wouldn't mind getting sent to the Isle of Wight. It's good for the lungs you know. I remember visiting Ventnor and reading that there was an old hospital school there for people with breathing issues, ill health and cystic fibrosis which had since closed. So it must be true

Well said Harmonypuss. I’m amazed at the numbers of carers who remain unvaccinated e,g. itsawelshthing. How can their employers allow this?

A doctor said recently that that 90% of those in hospital are not vaccinated, so it seems unlikely to me that the figure 60% of those in hospital are double vaccinated is correct.

Thankyou Jane I cant imagine the bravery it takes to think through the issues you have described, when you are reliant on carers for support for your child.
I am concerned about people treating carers in a way that almost seems as if they arent viewed as human, when 5 minutes ago those people were expecting carers to risk their own lives. It is very complex and cries of sack them and dont let them in dont help.
In my area it seems very likely that a young woman died of a blood clot following the vaccine, she left two young sons. Do we think those children should be barred from participating in the world when they grow up if they refuse to be vaccinated. People have experiences that are different to ours and we rarely know the full story. Education, support etc are what is needed not authoritarianism.

i think was 90% of ITU patients were unvaccinated

Ahh, you could well be right welbeck.

Forcing people to be injected with substance/chemicals is the slippery slope to a country that will lose its freedoms. Ethically so wrong. I am not anti-vax but pro-informed choice. It is right to question everything and take people's anxieties seriously..

Someone asked me to move places at a meeting (from my well spaced seat by an open window) to elsewhere in the room and well away from her, because I've only had one jab of the blood clot risky AZ. She stated this openly and in the hearing of others. I did as asked, but felt it was rather discriminatory nevertheless. I know many would not sympathise with me at all on this, but I wonder how tricky my life will be going forward simply because I have exercised my freedom of choice.

Saying ‘blood clot risky AZ’ is the same as saying I’ve just taken a ‘stomach ulcer risky Aspirin’.There are risks in most drugs we take, including alcohol, we don’t commonly describe them in such a manner.

The AZ vaccination is just an chimpanzee-adenovirus spliced with the gene sequence of SARS-Cov2. It enables your immune system to create memory cells to recognise the infection if and when it encounters it. It has to be an animal adenovirus to be detected as something foreign in the first instance to make the immune system react. The "substance/chemical' as you describe it, is gone from the body in days.

As had been said over and over and over, the risk of blood clotting is tiny compared to the risk of becoming seriously ill and worse from infection.

Pro-informed is one thing provided it is based on an understanding of the science. Risk assessing and coming down in favour of the bigger risk is foolish.

The person who asked you to move was exercising her freedom of choice not to sit near someone who is not as protected as they could be and possibly compromising her safety. It works both ways.

Up to 11 August, 73 people have suffered fatal blood clots from AZ, most of those females in my age group, and a small number on second dose (Yelliw Card). I perfectly understand the person asking me to move and I didn't make a fuss nor would I if it happens again. I was just explaining how it felt. I cannot stop thinking about the perfectly healthy people who have died from this jab. If you have one of these blood clots, there is a high probability of death. I am not allowed to have Pfizer for second jab because of UK vaccination rules, but I will ask again.

I'm going to take a guess that your age group is between 16 and 64. About 18,000 people in that age group have died of covid, so your chance of dying of covid is about 45 times that of dying from blood clots caused by the AS vaccine, using your figures.

Informed choice, you think?

A Z vaccine - autocorrect.

Moral of this story - don't do sums before your morning coffee.

250 times more likely, not 45.

Any corrections welcome

Krypytonite. I can’t find a source for 73 people having died from vaccine-induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (VITT). Can you provide it please?

The following numbers are from a Guardian article dated 11 August 2021 about the research.

220 confirmed and probable cases of VITT presented in UK hospitals between 22 March and 6 June. 23% died. That’s 50 people. Although the median age of the 220 was 48, 85% were under 60. If you apply 85% to the 50, that’s 42 deaths.

42 deaths of people age 18-60
8 deaths of people age 60-79

77% of the 220 cases, 170 survived.

From real world data. VITT has occurred in 8 people per million vaccinated with a first dose.

No-one is saying that the risk doesn’t exist but it is very tiny compared to the risk of developing clots from Covid infection.

More than a fifth of people hospitalised with Covid have evidence of blood clots. The cumulative total of patients who have been admitted to hospital in the UK is over 500,000. A fifth, 100,000 have evidence of blood clots.

Compare the risk. If you get sick enough with Covid to be hospitalised you run a 1 in 5 chance of getting clots. AZ vaccination - 8 in a million.

You have had your first shot of AZ and were one of the 999,992 out of every million who didn’t get VITT. I’d say the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour that all will be well if you go and get your second shot of AZ.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/oxfordastrazeneca-vaccine-rare-blood-clot-syndrome-has-high-mortality-rate

Great post Silverbridge.