when gender blinds us to sex

AcornFairy GRC is a Gender Recognition Certificate and is the document that is issued to trans to show that "a person has satisfied the criteria for legal recognition in the acquired gender".

Thanks Jane that's why the data matters. The population of women in prison is generally very different to the population of men in prison, we need accurate data whatever the crimes for those reasons. I think the crimes of men actually are often linked to previous head injuries and I think more research in this would be useful. But we need to know the sex of people to do this.

I have never understood why Trans gender people are so ashamed of being what they are and want to pretend they are biological what they have transitioned to. Surely being a Trans person is a clear gender definition in itself and lies along side the biological definitions.

Chewbacca

AcornFairy GRC is a Gender Recognition Certificate and is the document that is issued to trans to show that "a person has satisfied the criteria for legal recognition in the acquired gender".

Thank you Chewbacca.

trisher

Personally I thnk our rape law needs completely revising it is old fashioned and fails to take account of some horrific attacks which can't be described as rape. The USA has revised theirs it now reads “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”
I think there is a case for recording sex crimes with the sex of the offender, but I'm not sure this needs to be done for other offences. If a transwoman doesn't pay her TV licence does her sex matter?

On the face of it no. But the point of collecting data on things like this is that we don’t know, so the more demographic information we have the better.

We know, for instance, that women’s crimes (eg shoplifting and non-payment of tv licenses and fines) are crimes of poverty. Unless we have data, how do we know if transwomen suffer the same levels of poverty as heterosexual women? Gay people, on the whole, have higher disposable incomes, or used to the last time I saw the data. Not all of the data is relevant all of the time, but if it is not collected thoroughly in the first place social scientists can’t find patterns that may be useful, and benefit any or all groups, as (if there is political will), measures can be put in place to alleviate the issues, or therapy can be targeted better if applicable.

Demographic data such as sexuality or ethnic origin is not added to questionnaires out of curiosity - it is there for targeting reasons. If no gay people or members of a particular ethic group are going to a theatre, the marketing team can find ways of reaching those groups or tailoring their offer accordingly. If women from a set of postcodes suffer more miscarriages than those other areas, special care can be taken ante-nasally, whilst reasons and cures are investigated.

I agree that rape should be reclassified, but not that the sex of the perpetrator is irrelevant, for the reasons outlined above, and out of respect for the victim, who should not be forced to lie in court.

Ante-natally!

If a transwoman doesn't pay her TV licence does her sex matter?

Yes, if it is being documented as a crime, because it is a fact about that person.
It should be correctly recorded.
Or are you suggesting sex should be correctly recorded for some crimes and not for others, trisher?

Congratulations to Priti for tackling this matter. I did know that the 436 rapes covered a number of years, but I’m glad it hasn’t been postulated as an excuse for it not to be important.

As soon as you go down the path of recording some crimes by sex but not others you're on a slippery slope. Should GBH be recorded by sex, but assault not? Record every crime by the biological sex of the offender, then we'll have clear data that is accurate and useful.

The USA is also rushing towards the complete inclusion of every male who wishes, to be accepted as female.
What the USA does should not necessarily be copied.
I don't agree that the crime of rape should be re-classified.
I do think that the other horrific crimes of the type you mention trisher should be classed at the same level as rape.

FarNorth the horrific crimes mentioned should also be classified by the sex of the offender.

Chewbacca

In 2020, in English prisons, 74 male prisoners who identify as women were serving sentences for sex offences compared to 125 women. Of those 125 women, some may be people who may be biologically male but have a GRC as they are automatically counted as being female.

Some males being automatically counted as female is completely ridiculous.

Getting a GRC - Gender Recognition Certificate - doesn't have to include having had genital surgery (which many people believe it does).
I don't advocate forcing anyone to have surgery, in order to get a certificate.
I think the GRC should be abolished.

Definitely they should Mollygo.

Well, I almost always disagree strongly with what Priti Patel says, but this time, in my opinion, she has got it right, and full credit to her.

The GRC was introduced as far as I recall as an alternative to sanctioning same sex marriage. Now that everybody is equal in the marriage stakes there is simply no need any more so I'd agree with you FarNorth. It was a homophobic measure that has no place in a decent society. It's no surprise that Iran leads the world for transgender surgery and sex reclassification, it still punshes male homosexuality by death, and females by lashing.

Thinking about it, surely the "automatically counted" thing is at the discretion of the police and prison authorities.
The exceptions in the Equality Act could be applied to exclude male-bodied people from being accommodated with females, for reasons of privacy and safety.

Privacy is something that prison authorities, and many others, seem to disregard in connection with women prisoners.
It seems that being reasonably sure that a male prisoner (claiming to be a woman) is not likely to physically assault women is all that's necessary for him to be shunted straight in.
(And we know they get that wrong anyway.)

I’m mostly surprised that it’s in law that women cannot be rapists.

I find that…wrong, for lack of a better word.

Biological women can and do rape.

Just for once I totally agree with Priti Patel.

I agree and I'm not sure I have the words to express why except to say proven rapists don't get rights to anything as far as I am concerned except an ability to serve out their sentence without the opportunity to keep offending or having other crimes committed against them. Crimes occuring in prison really isn't acceptable considering it undoes the punishment and rehabilitation aspects of those who continue to offend there and creates victims of those who committed lesser crimes.

Summerlove As you need a penis to rape, biological women can't rape. I'm assuming you mean biological women have used implements to sexually assault someone. Where are your links to evidence of this, and how many women are guilty of this crime? I would think the number would be vanishingly small.

Summerlove

I’m mostly surprised that it’s in law that women cannot be rapists.

I find that…wrong, for lack of a better word.

Biological women can and do rape.

Sadly true and also very complicit in sex crimes and knowing it is happening as I know from experience as a child.

FarNorth

Chewbacca

In 2020, in English prisons, 74 male prisoners who identify as women were serving sentences for sex offences compared to 125 women. Of those 125 women, some may be people who may be biologically male but have a GRC as they are automatically counted as being female.

Some males being automatically counted as female is completely ridiculous.

Getting a GRC - Gender Recognition Certificate - doesn't have to include having had genital surgery (which many people believe it does).
I don't advocate forcing anyone to have surgery, in order to get a certificate.
I think the GRC should be abolished.

I think this is a very good point.

I do wonder, however, whether there should be a legal difference between those transpeople who have actively transitioned, for want of a better phrase, and those who simply ‘identify’. I think that this would allay some of the fears of women, which would in turn make the lives of transpeople easier.

Note that this is not saying that anyone should be forced to do anything, and is nor excluding transmen - it is just that men are at far less risk from transmen than women are from untransitioned transwomen.

Reading the info on the petition it looks as if this will not happen. It is left up to individual police forces and they say it may not be easy to determine sex and they are not going to start an examination to find out.

They really should not to be in the police force if they dont have the ability to determine sex without examination.

may not be easy to determine sex well that's a cop out straight off. A simple cheek swab will determine sex if they don't want to do a physical examination. They don't have too many problems with doing intimate physical examinations of suspected drug dealers or users.