when gender blinds us to sex

Jolly good.

I wonder where we go now in terms of ensuring women arent made to call their rapist or violent assailant 'she', is that up.to the discretion of the individual court I wonder.

I don't think courts have discretion in matters like this - the law has to apply to all.

I hope that one day we'll look back at all this in disbelief.

I fear if you start to broaden the definition of rape, there is a danger it may come to be seen as a lesser crime, as it would encompass such a wide range of acts. What needs to be assured is these other sexual violations are treated in the same way as rape and sentencing is congruent.
My concerns are with the same factors as you Galaxy conviction rates for rape, and victims of sexual or other violence being forced to refer to their male attacker as 'she'.

Doodledog

I don't think courts have discretion in matters like this - the law has to apply to all.

I hope that one day we'll look back at all this in disbelief.

Hear, hear!

I don't think anyone is suggesting for a minute that any form of sexual assault isn't serious, or that rape of one sex is worse than rape of the other.

There is, however, an additional trauma (IMO) with an assault that could transmit a life-threatening virus such as HIV, or a pregnancy that would result in either a child of rape or a termination.

And the very idea that someone who has gone through this would have to refer to their rapist as 'she' would be unbelievable if we weren't living in what feels like an alternative reality.

No probably not doodledog I am just trying to think it through. There is no such thing as compelled speech in law so presumably witnesses could avoid using pronouns. I am not saying they should have to obviously.

Rape convictions are falling in the UK. There is no reason to think that broadening the definition would change that, in fact I think it could be argued that it would draw more attention to the issue solely because more people would be fighting for a rape conviction. That gives victims a much louder voice, a larger solidarity, opens up more avenues for support and force authorities and courts to spend more time educating themselves on the matter.

A woman forcing sex on a man also carries the risk of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

Now let's be clear, I can see no reason a victim should be forced to call a rapist by their chosen pronouns but actually that could also be avoided by using "they" and "them" lawfully.

Galaxy

No probably not doodledog I am just trying to think it through. There is no such thing as compelled speech in law so presumably witnesses could avoid using pronouns. I am not saying they should have to obviously.

Yes, that's probably how it will happen. As if the poor victims don't have enough to worry about without that.

Yes whilst giving the account of one of the most traumatic events they have to be careful in their language in order not to upset an abusive man.

It's hideous, isn't it? But we can't upset the sensibilities of someone who claims to have a female body.

VS I think you're over-optimistic there.
A change in the classification, leading to an increased number of convictions for rape, would just have people saying that those statistics can't be compared to the previous ones because of the change, and that they don't represent real rapes.
It would also obscure the specific crime which is committed with a penis.
Even including the miniscule number of women who commit a sexual assault using their vagina (1 per century, maybe) would allow some people to say "women are included in that figure too" thus disguising the facts.

If a woman who forces sex on a man wishes to avoid an unwanted pregnancy and STD she can apply a condom can't she.

I can't see many rapists stopping long enough to put one on because their victim asks them too.

I posted earlier that it could cause issues with regard to intent for example,if anything other than a penis is used, was their intent to rape or sexually abuse? What would the defendant be charged with?

FarNorth There will always be those sort of people but we should still make changes that are right.

Especially for victims who are violated and should have access to the right punishment for their attacker and the right support to deal with it. That will for the most part be positive for women, well, women like me frankly and many other abuse survivors I have spoken to.

"they" would probably not be allowed because that is not the pronoun the person wants.
The victim could say a person / the person / someone etc.
They would have to take their time giving evidence, to make sure they chose the right words but that should be okay with the court.
Victims & witnesses shouldn't be hustled to get on with it, I don't think.

VS you still don’t get it do you. If I’d been raped by a thing with a penis I’d want the right to call it he rather than being further traumatised by accusations of hurting the rapists feelings.
Falling rape convictions is not something to be proud of unless the rapes are also decreasing.
Once again you are obfuscating the issue of rape of females by males-in whatever form they feel on the day, by dragging in other attacks. I have already agreed that no assault by anyone is acceptable, but it seems, as in the title, that gender blinds you to sex.

I wasn't going to get involved in this, as it is too idiotic, but if a woman somehow forced sex on a man and became pregnant, the pregnancy would presumably be 'wanted'. The point being that if she were able to manage to rape him she would presumably have control over whether to make him wear a condom, or if that stretches credulity even by the standards of this bit of the conversation she could take precautions of her own.

Molly No.

I clearly said from the beginning that rapists have no right to preferred pronouns as far as I'm concerned.

I've only suggested work around for the way things stand at present

Sorry, I think all of that has already been said - I somehow missed a page.

I agree completely with you Doodlebug. ps Iam a very old lady

I've just posted the same Doodledog. TBH when I look at some of the things we feel the need to post to state the obvious I wonder which planet I'm on!!!

Violettham

I agree completely with you Doodlebug. ps Iam a very old lady

You will have seen a lot of nonsense in your time, in that case, but I bet there hasn't been much to compete with this?

the right punishment for their attacker and the right support to deal with it.

Absolutely women should have that VS, and so should men who are sexually assaulted.
If sexual assaults are treated as being less serious than rape, that is wrong and should be changed.
I believe rape should remain as a specific crime to make clear exactly what the man has done.