Staying on topic- threads in general

Missing the point trisher.

The argument hasn't been lost trisher it hasn't been won either.

FarNorth

I'm astonished by how upset you seem to be about the term "transwidows" trisher given that it is used by a very small number of women to refer to themselves and they are not asking anyone else to use it and are not trying to include themselves in anywhere that they should not - perhaps such as support groups for widows.

Yet absolutely everything for women is being taken over, even the very word "woman" and you'll argue endlessly in favour of that.

I'd object to men calling themselves transwidowers as well FarNorth nothing to do with women.

Transmen are not being that will only be if they've changed the sex marker on their NHS record from F to M. I'm assuming they're intelligent enough to realise that will mean they won't automatically be called for female health screening, and that they need to take responsibility themselves.

Isn't it funny how when the argument is lost - transwidows are not widows and there is nothing misogynistic in that. The subject is someohow changed and deflected into some other area.
Logically speaking anyway if trans is a person who is changing or challenging gender norms a transwidow should be a man who has lost a partner and changed gender.

FarNorth

^Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".^

Women who transition can use whatever term they like. They are insisting, however, that their preferred term is to be the one used for everyone.

I don't think they are FarNorth I thinkthe term has been used on health information so transmen use the service. I believe there are still women using the service and being called in for screening. Transmen are not being.

That must have been very distressing for your friend SueDonim. Why on earth didn't the nurse simply withdraw sympathetically and quickly?

SueDonim

The case you mention in your post of 00:23, Chewbacca, is a friend of mine. ‘Embarrassed’ doesn’t go anywhere near how she actually felt.

I spoke of it at the time on GN and was roundly disbelieved that such thing had even occurred.

I remember your post SueDonim and reading about this case i the press. The nurse involved was clearly under the impression that their personal circumstances took priority over the needs of the patients. A crusader, an activist first and medical practitioner second.
I wondered at the time and still wonder, how a woman from a faith which says only female medical staff should be involved in intimate procedures like this would have responded

What do you find ridiculous, nanna8?

Getting sick of these TURF oops TERF wars. Ridiculous. I don’t think that acronym is used here, never heard of it before. But then we are all Neanderthals down here.

By the way, someone who was married to a person who transitions may not be divorced. The marriage may have been annulled.
They have the right to do that.

I'm astonished by how upset you seem to be about the term "transwidows" trisher given that it is used by a very small number of women to refer to themselves and they are not asking anyone else to use it and are not trying to include themselves in anywhere that they should not - perhaps such as support groups for widows.

Yet absolutely everything for women is being taken over, even the very word "woman" and you'll argue endlessly in favour of that.

Would transwidows still refer to themselves that way if they accepted trans people in general?

I expect they would VS because, however much they accept trans people, that is not who they chose to marry.
The person they believed they married no longer exists.

Funny that women whose husbands transition can be widows but women who transition can't even use the term "person with a cervix".

Women who transition can use whatever term they like. They are insisting, however, that their preferred term is to be the one used for everyone.

I know. It is like a dystopian nightmare.

My heart goes out to your friend, SueDonim.

Oh SueDonim your poor friend. I feel so bloody angry about it all. How the hell did we not see this coming? It's like we sleep walked into it. And we're made to feel like transphobic bigots, just for asking "can I been seen by a female nurse/doctor please?" But it's fine as long as we don't upset the men.

I thought it was about power too Doodledog. It would appear, from the statement issued by the hospital Trust, that the nurse had entered into some kind of disputory dialogue with the woman, hence she refused to go ahead with the examination and wrote a letter of complaint. If it hadn't been a power thing, the nurse would have acknowledged that another practitioner should be called and stepped away. Women are being challenged not to ask to have a female nurse for intimate examinations on peril of being labelled transphobic and bigots. Removal of choice and safe spaces. Again.

The case you mention in your post of 00:23, Chewbacca, is a friend of mine. ‘Embarrassed’ doesn’t go anywhere near how she actually felt.

I spoke of it at the time on GN and was roundly disbelieved that such thing had even occurred.

It is hard to believe that someone who genuinely believes themselves to be female would present with stubble and a beard in any sort of professional situation. It sounds as though that was a power trip.

A good example of how women's rights are being overridden by the rights of trans:

A woman, who asked to be seen by a female nurse when she went for a smear test, was embarrassed when she was allocated a person with 'stubble and a beard'.
Upon being called in for the procedure, the patient said she was 'distressed' to discover that the nurse was biologically male.
When she pointed out the mistake, the nurse responded that their gender was not male and that they were transsexual.

In her letter of complaint she wrote that, when booking the appointment, she had specifically requested a female nurse or practitioner.
She added: 'People who are not comfortable about this are presented as bigots and this is kind of how I was made to feel about it.'

Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust said: 'We apologised to this patient for the recording error and because the staff member accepted they didn’t manage the situation appropriately or professionally; the patient needed to feel listened to.

Can you define ‘claim to have’, in this context? It’s blowing my tiny mind.

And a trnssman could claim to have a penis.

Chewbacca

And the fluidity of the meanings, causes of offenses, inclusivities and exclusivities always flows in one direction ....... misogyny. As you said Rosie51; shove up, shut up, do as you're told!

I'd object to transwidowers just as much Chewbacca where's the misogyny?

trisher

If we are changing language like this - that is a woman whose husband has transitioned has the right to call herself a widow because she feels like one, then logically speaking a transwoman has the right to claim she has the same reproductive organs as a birth woman because she feels she has them, even if she still has a penis.

And vice versa?

Personally, I think that transwidow is a rarely used term to describe a state that is niche. It is not an official definition in any sense. On any form she would be known as a divorcee. But if a woman chooses to refer to herself in those terms amongst her friends, it is no different from golf widow (although infinitely more painful).

It does not begin to compare with someone claiming to be a woman because she feels she has a uterus. Can I claim to be an angel because I feel I have a halo?

And the fluidity of the meanings, causes of offenses, inclusivities and exclusivities always flows in one direction ....... misogyny. As you said Rosie51; shove up, shut up, do as you're told!