I have a perfect right to dislike her and so do those who have spoken against her whether they have to do so or not
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(639 Posts)Do you mind if a thread de-rails after it has been running for a while and extends into other areas? I would have thought this was a natural progression of any discussion and sometimes the original subject returns with new light cast on it. It certainly seems in my opinion an odd reason for deleting any thread.
It's made a competition by the constant claims that transpeople are 'the most oppressed group in our society'. On what evidence is that based? What does it even mean?
Yes, Galaxy - JKR is very brave, and it's good to see her getting support.
VioletSky
I have a perfect right to dislike her and so do those who have spoken against her whether they have to do so or not
That's not what you said, though. You said that she had alienated her readers, and that the actors (who have been made rich and famous as a direct result of her books, and didn't dislike her then) had had to speak against her.
Erm, the evidence is everywhere trans people are spoken about.
Or would you sit and sip tea with trans people and tell them everything that has been said in this thread and others then tell them they shouldn't feel oppressed?
doodledog Read my comment again, I explained why I dislike her the first time
If you are assionate about something "had to" is relevant if you want to break am association that may be made if you say nothing
Doodledog
It's made a competition by the constant claims that transpeople are 'the most oppressed group in our society'. On what evidence is that based? What does it even mean?
Yes, Galaxy - JKR is very brave, and it's good to see her getting support.
Well it's hard to measure becaus of the way records are kept but given the small number of transpeople in the population, the numbes of assaults is very high.
Violet. We all know this. No offence but most of us followed the JKR debate very closely. You are as entitled to dislike her as I am entitled to think she is brave.
Er transpeople have these conversations with feminists all the time.
Sometimes they have tea as well.
Galaxy
Violet. We all know this. No offence but most of us followed the JKR debate very closely. You are as entitled to dislike her as I am entitled to think she is brave.
Ah but the reason I dislike her didn't start with her views on trans people, it started when she said that demographics existed in her books that weren't there
Well the reason I liked her originally was her work with women, way before this issue and the fact that she wrote books that made my son read.
From The Critic: 21st October, 2021
Let’s begin with the clearest indicator of the extent to which a community is “marginalised and abused”: the murder rate of those within it. Because there is no stable definition of what constitutes a “trans person”, there is no standardised method for recording the deaths of trans people across the UK. However, we know that there have been eight reported murders of people who defined themselves as transgender, transsexual or cross-dressers in the UK since reporting began in 2008. Note that the UK is not a European anomaly — in Germany there hasn’t been a murder of a trans person since 2008, while 26 countries in Europe have reported no murders of trans people for the entire period.
Even though we’ve seen a sharp rise in the number of people who identify as transgender in the last few years, a trans person hasn’t been murdered in the UK for nearly three years and there are, for example, no reports ever of a trans person in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland being murdered.
Moreover, not one of even the eleven people Transrespect says were murdered, were killed due to “transphobia”. The victim in each case was typically murdered by a male sexual partner due to drugs or money issues. None were killed by a woman — and one was killed by a man who identifies as a woman. True, the total number of hate crime offences has soared in recent years. However, this has been driven by changes to both the recording of crimes and the identification of what constitutes a hate crime. Measures of hate crime that are unaffected by changes in policing or recording methods, such as the Crime Survey for England and Wales, show a “long -^term decline in hate crime."^
Hate Crime Reported
RACE
2015/16 @ 45,440
2016/2017 @ 58,294
2017/2018 @ 64,829
2018/2019 @ 72,041
2019/2020 @ 76,070
*RELIGION
2015/16 @ 3962
2016/2017 @ 5184
2017/2018 @ 7103
2018/2019 @ 7203
2019/2020 @ 6822
SEXUAL ORIENTATION
2015/16 @ 6700
2016/2017 @ 8569
2017/2018 @ 10,670
2018/2019 @ 13,314
2019/2020 @ 15,835
DISABILITY
2015/16 @ 3393
2016/2017 @ 5254
2017/2018 @ 6787
2018/2019 @ 7786
2019/2020 @ 8469
TRANSGENDER
2015/16 @ 820
2016/2017 @ 1195
2017/2018 @ 1615
2018/2019 @ 2183
2019/2020 @ 2540
Of the five monitored strands that the police record as hate crimes, the transgender category has, every year, and by some distance, seen the least number of “hate crimes” against it. In fact, religion — the next-lowest — saw nearly three times as many incidents in the last recording year.
It's good that hate crime are being recategorised and taken more seriously so that people get the punishment they deserve.
People do understand how statistics work right?
Also math?
Do feel free to explain.....
Do you remember how quickly race based hate crime rose during public discussion about brexit and the strong views expressed about minorities coming here and taking "are" jobs.
Well, while these discussions are happening publically I would have no surprise if hate crimes against transgender people are rising as a result, only currently disguised by covid measures.
Aye right. 
I'm not OK with it. I'm tired of it. It needs to stop. It's constant, 1 demographic after another marginalised and oppressed. When it is happening by those who truly know how it feels to be marginalised and oppressed, it breaks my heart because I just thought we were better than that.
Disguised by Covid measures? Surely not VS. That would be as bad as rape or murders by TW being recorded as committed by a female.
Because I am a feminist and we fight oppression, always have and always wil. We do not cause it.
You are your sort of feminist.
I thought we were better than letting men be in spaces with women who have been raped and assaulted but apparently not. It is not oppressing a man to say they should not be in a womans space.
Exactly where the figures quoted in the Critic came from is questionable since the UK does not and has not identified or recorded crime by any recognised trans gender definition. until very recently www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk
The statistics are approximate and are possibly about 1.
But as I said why on earth is this a competition?
As for JK Rowling I never particularly liked her. Her books are undoubtedly popular but the stories that were released about her when they were first published were just nonsense. I find her stance on transmatters both unacceptable and unnecessary.
How can you dislike someone you've never met and don't know? You can dislike their views but not the person, and if everyone could differentiate between the two, that in itself could have a real impact on reducing the number of hate crimes.
Well I would be surprised "if hate crimes against transgender people" rise as a result of mature and sensible discussions. So far the only evidence of hate I have seen, has been directed at those who express their concerns about the erosion of women's safe places and the unnecessary change of language.
I agree Galaxy JKR is brave, brave enough to speak out, perhaps braver than some in the public eye who go along with the unfounded criticism she's received because they're afraid to do otherwise.
An informative and interesting post Chewbacca.
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