Staying on topic- threads in general

Unfortunately some feminists are very selective when it comes to fighting oppression, and some of the 'arguments' I've seen put forward during these discussions not only reinforce this selectivity, they support some of the causes of oppression.

Exactly Gakaxy" "It is not oppressing a man to say they should not be in woman's space" but it *is oppressing women to say they can be there, whether women want them there or not.

Here you go trisher check it out yourself. There are several ways to contact Madison Smith if you disagree with her stats. I think you'll like the Tweet James Morton, Scottish Transgender Alliance Manager at the Equality Network. Illustrates exactly how statistics get manipulated.

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

The most frightening thing for me is using women's very real fears, by constantly claiming that accepting trans women as women erodes their safe spaces despite the fact that no one has advocated for that here, it is pulling women over to right wing thinking. Right wing idealogy and feminism has always had, in my view, a very tenuous connection due to the fact that feminsim was created to fight oppression.

“As for JK Rowling, I never particularly liked her.”
Thanks for sharing that useless item about your feelings. Would you like a list of the authors I don’t rate in exchange?
This isn’t a competition. One trans person murdered by anyone, trans or not is one too many, just as one woman raped or murdered by anyone trans or not is one too many.
Putting people convicted of rape (genetically male) in close quarters with potential victims (female) is aiding and abetting a potential-even probable offence.

I am not right wing. Could you stop making generalisations. Its just nonsense.

VioletSky

Galaxy

Violet. We all know this. No offence but most of us followed the JKR debate very closely. You are as entitled to dislike her as I am entitled to think she is brave.

Ah but the reason I dislike her didn't start with her views on trans people, it started when she said that demographics existed in her books that weren't there

I'm puzzled by that, Violetsky
Her children's books are fantasy and are known to be such.
Did she mean her books for adults?
What exactly did she mean?

It just doesnt work anymore violet. In the same way as no debate didnt work, in the same way as what was it again a group of high powered lesbians gathering women into a gender critical cult didnt work. Everyone can see the nonsense for what it is.

Chewbacca

Here you go trisher check it out yourself. There are several ways to contact Madison Smith if you disagree with her stats. I think you'll like the Tweet James Morton, Scottish Transgender Alliance Manager at the Equality Network. Illustrates exactly how statistics get manipulated.

thecritic.co.uk/neither-marginalised-abused-nor-vulnerable/

I don't "disagree" with her statistics Chewbacca I question their origins because there are no records

How many trans people are murdered in the UK?

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) confirmed to FactCheck that “it is not possible to identify transgender victims in current homicide statistics” and “the sex of a homicide victim is determined by the police force that records the crime”.

In other words, there is not yet an official, standardised method for recording the deaths of trans people across the UK. The ONS told FactCheck they are working across government to “develop clear harmonised standards” for collecting data on sex and gender.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

How odd that ardent "feminists" dislike JK Rowling so much. She has given £15.3 million to support 14 charities and 17 causes across children's, women's and literacy charities. She's confirmed that she's a staunch Labour supporter and that her books give many clues to that. She's been a personal benefactor to several aspiring actors who she has financially supported since childhood. I'll bet she's gutted that you don't like her and takes it very personally indeed.
Although probably not

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. SNAP! I thought the very same thing when I saw the James Morton Tweet.

But remember the secret right wing money funding her chewbacca, I dont know about you but it's taken them ages to put anything in my account. Tight gits.

I didn't say that Galaxy I said I am concerned that is happening though.

I can't stand up in the face of putting words in my mouth or that elephant people are ignoring because being right is too important to them so they can't hear what is actually being said and meant.

I think I need to step away from these discussions for the sake of my own mental health. I haven't joined the new ones (although I am being discussed unfairly on them) and these ones need to be hidden for my own good.

"The most frightening thing for me is using women's very real fears ......." it has nothing to do with using women's fears, and everything to do with those fears being ignored. Women are afraid and it has absolutely nothing to do with right wing ideology.

I find it incredulous that there is yet another statement that "feminism was created to fight oppression". We know what feminism was created for.

"it is pulling women over to right wing thinking" really!!

tight gits very tight! Galaxy

For me the elephant in the room has already been exposed. It’s that
“Some people think they know better than science and that they can change science to suit their purpose.”
It’s there to read on several GN threads.
Violet, I’ve never put words into your mouth but please don’t stand up. It’s bad for your blood pressure. Go back to sitting patiently as you mentioned earlier.
I say this because as a feminist I care about the oppressed minority of women, which you seem to imply includes you.

What new ones VioletSky?

VioletSky

Do you remember how quickly race based hate crime rose during public discussion about brexit and the strong views expressed about minorities coming here and taking "are" jobs.

Well, while these discussions are happening publically I would have no surprise if hate crimes against transgender people are rising as a result, only currently disguised by covid measures.

I'm a bit lost here. How does this explain how maths or statistics work?

I dont care about being right. Couldnt care less. I have said in the thread I was wrong about Maya.

Concerned about what. That saying men should not be in womens spaces encourages right wing thinking.
And feminism is for right wing women too, it's for women who we disagree with. It's for women who hold different politics to us.

The logic that claims that thinking that men shouldn't be in women's spaces is 'right wing' makes no sense to me.

I've said before that one of the first things said to me on GN was that because I question the way in which the very young are able to 'transition' I must be right wing. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now.

What new threads?

I think if you look at some of the left wing men who speak on this subject, they just cant believe that women can think for themselves it seems beyond their comprehension. So they look for explanations, it's the right wing influence, etc etc. Its hard not to sound like a drama queen but I cant begin to describe what a shock it was to me to see such misogyny from my own 'side'. Its embarrassing that I got to my age without understanding that misogyny is not party political. Being dramatic again but its hard to describe my sense of betrayal.

You see this is what disturbs me. People who question transrights also castigate anyone who supports them as either a transactivist or as misogynistic. I don't like any philosophy that says it is wrong to question attitudes because they are held by a woman. Misogyny is hatred and contempt for women. It is not hatred or contempt to question another woman's views. Sometimes women hold views which are prejudiced, sometimes women are racist, sometimes women are discriminatory. Shuld I support the things because they are proposed by a woman? If not how can questioning a belief be mysoginistic? It is not only misusing the term it is giving women a get out of gaol free card which says you can't criticise or question me because I'm a women and if you do I'll say you are mysoginistic.

Chewbacca

^There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.^ SNAP! I thought the very same thing when I saw the James Morton Tweet.

Equating ONS records with something posted on Twitter isn't really an argument though is it!

No I am castigating those men who think women are unable to think for themselves and are very clear about it. I dont think they are misogynistic because we disagree about something I think they are misogynists because they continually express surprise at women organising, at women being able to raise their own money etc. They offer to talk to us to tell us what to think.