Uncritical support for trans ideology is a bad idea - a calm explanation of why this is.

(this post was brought to you by the letter W) love it........ my kids learned so much from Sesame Street

Doodledog

Smileless2012

How can we put a stop to it Doodledog when there are women supporting it?

I suppose it's the women who support it whom I wish would wake up.

(this post was brought to you by the letter W)

Made me lol, a very unusual experience on any trans related thread ?

Trans people have rights. I cannot deny them that.

Natal women have rights too but trans activists are trampling all over them. Establishing the rights of one section of the community shouldn’t be at the expense of another.

I cannot blame trans people for the crimes of a man masquerading as a woman.

No one is blaming all trans people, but you can’t deny that the risk is there.

I cannot blame trans people for the mistakes made fighting for equality for all, including trans people.

What ‘mistakes’ ? You mean the complete disregard for the rights of others shown by trans activists ?

I remember the discussions when we realised how many LGB people actually exist in the UK and the fears about them sharing bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons etc.

Those fears passed. These will too.

No they won’t. Not while laws are being passed allowing violent criminals who claim to be trans to be locked in jail cells with vulnerable women. Not while laws are being passed sanctioning inmates of womens’ prisons for ‘misgendering offences’ by adding time to their sentences. And not while trans women who have male genitalia to share womens’ safe spaces.

Friday night @ 21.00, BBC2 Kirsty Wark in a programme called Womanhood. It brings together six well known women to explore issues concerning women today in an honest discussion about trans women that creates the most confusion and anger". One of the panel is Nic Williams from Fair Play for Women so at least one natal woman's voice will be heard.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011xgn

Thanks for the heads up, Chewbacca. I'll catch it on iPlayer if I'm not able to see it on Friday.

I remember the discussions when we realised how many LGB people actually exist in the UK and the fears about them sharing bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons etc.

What fears?
LGB people were not elsewhere, waiting to invade. They were already using all the single-sex places, as appropriate to their sex.

Unlike the recently self-declared transwomen, who have been in males' spaces until they decided to force their way into females' ones by claiming to be women.

Thank you Chewbacca.

I don't see any mention of Nic Williams there, tho.

She's not in the line up is she FarNorth? But her Twitter said Pleased to announce that @asknic of @fairplaywomen was interviewed by the celebrities for this BBC2 documentary. We get to explain why women and girls still need access male-free changing rooms and why it's not transphobic to say so.

Hmmm... possibly a remote interview and not on the panel? Should be an interesting watch though.

I never really thought too deeply about this before but our genders are assigned to us in the womb and even if we live as the other gender or have gender reassignment surgery, our original Chromosome that indicates our gender will not change

OnwardandUpward

I never really thought too deeply about this before but our genders are assigned to us in the womb and even if we live as the other gender or have gender reassignment surgery, our original Chromosome that indicates our gender will not change

Onward and Upward Please don't be offended if I make a correction to a word you have used in your post (This seems to be my thread for using the blue pencil!) The difference between sex and gender is important to the understanding of this subject.

Our sex is ours from birth, or before, and is evidenced in every cell of our bodies, where we have either two X chromosomes if we are female and an X and a Y if we are female, unless our conception involved a serious and potentially fatal mistake which somehow included an extra X or Y. It is not possible to change these chromosomes.

Babies receive one of her Xs from their mother and either an X or a Y from their father, by the mother contributing an egg and the father sperm, which fuse to form the new cell which divides again and again to form the new person.

The only objective definition of the sex of anyone is by identifying those chromosomes, and the contribution that person can/does makes to creating a new life.

Gender is a more subjective thing. It is all the attributes that are considered to be womanly or manly, and some detail varies from one culture to another (In the 1920s or 1930's an anthropologist found a tribe where the men spent their time sitting around gossiping and doing one another's hair and wore masses of jewellery, playing instruments and singing, while the women cleared forests to plant food, carried water and collected wood, and built houses)

Some physical things can be altered by surgery or hormone treatment, and things like ways of dressing and moving can be changed. Someone who feels that they have nothing in common with their chromosomal sex can be indistinguishable from the sex they would rather be BUT it is their gender and how they live their lives that they have changed, not their sex

Stating this is not to deny them the chance to live as they wish and be happy - but it is a reason to not agree that they are now completely male instead of female, or female instead of male. That would be untrue.

I'm so sick of this stuff.

This crime will be recorded as being committed by a female and the man will probably be placed in a women's prison.

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-woman-accused-using-sex-22260053

It's gaslighting of the worst order. What is the reporter thinking of to refer to the offender as 'she', when 'she's been masturbating with a penis?

I expect loads have already read it, but I've just finished 'Trans: When Ideology meets Reality' by Helen Joyce. Wow, just wow! Chapter by chapter she explains all aspects so calmly, logically but most importantly, kindly. Yes it helps she has a soft Irish accent (I listened to the audible book) but I do find her very sympathetic to trans people. If people would listen to what she says, if only the last chapter of the book, I really think they'd learn and understand so much. No doubt there will be some ready to condemn her (and me by association) buy I'd guarantee not one will have actually read the book.

No, the same logic that suggests it's ok to 'debate' by refusing to answer questions is probably fine with condemning without reading the book ?.

I've listened to it too, and it's very good. As you say, it's far from being a transphobic rant.

So glad it's not just me! I loved her explanation of 'crony' agreement. That rings so true, especially when you marry it to the Goodreads condemnation of the 'Strike" novel with the guy who disguises by wearing women's clothing as anti-trans when it was nothing of the sort, but none of them had read the novel......Pink News is about as amateur and inaccurate as you can get.....

The reporters have to follow their code which makes them write 'she' for men who say they are women.

At least that report makes clear that the person is a penis-haver .
We don't have to read the whole thing while wondering if this is really a woman or not, as usually happens.

A poster on facebook commented that it's strange how they are always called 'women' when they have committed a crime but are called 'transwomen' when they are victims.

Seen on Twitter.

Clue -
one person is a man
one person is a woman
one person is non-binary.

Does it matter? They’re all unacceptable in women’s safe spaces.

That's your opinion Mollygo but others are of the opinion that only one of those people should be unwelcome because of being a man.

The tweet was to someone in favour of 'trans rights' asking if they know which person is a man i.e. not trans.

(none of them is a transman, btw)

I know, I know, and I can imagine some saying that. However, if a person persists in looking like a man, acting like a man, with the “I can dress how I want, wear a beard if I want, but if I say I am a woman then you have to accept it and if it upsets you, tough!”attitude, then he, or even they shouldn’t be in women’s safe spaces, taking women’s jobs, etc, etc. TWANW and non binary are only women if they are actually female.

The reporters have to follow their code which makes them write 'she' for men who say they are women.
What code is this? I didn't realise that there was a code for journalists - house style guides for different papers/channels, and the NUJ code of ethics, but not a code that determines which pronouns have to be used, or other linguistic constraints.

Has Stonewall infiltrated journalism too?

Independent Press Standards Association, Editors' Code.

www.ipso.co.uk/member-publishers/guidance-for-journalists-and-editors/transgender-guidance/

Evidently Doodledog. It’s appalling that even TW flaunting a penis can shriek PHOBIA or DISCRIMINATION if you don’t say ‘she’ under present rules - invented and supported no doubt, by the TW and trans fans whose desire is to erode females’ rights. The harm they are doing to all those trans who have no desire to publicise their lives and cause trouble is incredible.

Thanks, FN. It seems crazy that criminals get to dictate how they are referred to, even when their sex is relevant to the crime.