Singapore now charges the cost of medical treatment for Covid.

What I don’t ‘get’ is that anyone unvaccinated who becomes seriously ill with Covid and taken to hospital is then treated with a variety of drugs to combat the illness. They, the patient, will have no idea what they are being treated with, but will happily accept anything in order to recover. And some of these treatments will be relatively new.

So why is a newish, but highly tested vaccine, any different?

I feel a little weary of seeing recovering Covid victims saying how they regretted not having the vaccine, if only they had known how ill you could become, they had been so busy, not got round to it, etc etc.

Doodledog sadly not everyone who needs to be treated actually is. There are very long waiting lists. People die waiting for treatment. Unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds extend these lists. Choices are made.

I have a friend waiting for heart surgery. He's always kept very fit and slim, and has had all his jabs and booster. Now he may well have his wait extended, just because antivax idiots are using hospital, having contracted covid. Worst case scenario, he could die waiting for that life saving op. I don't know the answer, but they are so blinkered and selfish. If they knew they'd have to pay for treatment if not jabbed, would that change anything? As someone else says, they'll take any amount of drugs in ICU to stay alive.

My daughter is an nhs nurse. A female patient regained consciousness this week after 4 weeks in ICU on a ventilator. One of many unvaccinated patients occupying ICU beds. Before she deteriorated to a level that required a ventilator she was insisting covid was all a big hoax and they were making a fuss about nothing.

She’s propped up in bed now, after 4 weeks in a coma, still short of breath, coughing and in need of oxygen 24 hours a day. She has chastised the staff for telling her she’s been very ill with covid and insists it was “just a chest infection “

The 4 weeks that this foolish woman has occupied an ICU bed could have seen a turn over of several patients on the waiting list for major surgery including cancer.

I don’t think this country would ever do that. I heard yesterday that NZ is banning smoking. I couldn’t believe my ears.

I don't think it's something we should do. Nevertheless it's galling to read how many of the unvaccinated are taking up crucial beds, I can only imagine how a cancer sufferer for example would feel knowing how their deferred treatment could well mean that their cancer will be progress to a stage where it becomes terminal, it does seem so unfair.

Increasingly I feel we should all have passports. I certainly wouldn't want to go down the route some European countries have taken, fining refusers enormous amounts of money, after all it is an individual's prerogative to refuse a vaccine, for whatever reason. However, having said that, they are selfish, the majority of us who have been vaccinated do it firstly to protect ourselves and our families but as in wearing masks, acting for the greater good. The obvious solutions is the non vaccinated lose the right to enter public indoor spaces, even supermarkets, prioritise them for home deliveries and click and collect, let them go out for walks but just preclude them from any indoor venue and outdoor sporting and concert entertainment, public transport etc. etc.

I don't think you can charge for NHS care but clearly something needs to be done to make those anti-vaxxers who don't have a valid reason for having their jabs sit up and start to take some responsibility for themselves and the wider community. Other posters have mentioned stopping travel and admission to entertainment and sporting events and I agree with that. They can't have their cake and eat it. The majority of us have had our jabs despite having a few concerns the snowflakes need to buck up.

Singapore is just much tougher generally in many respects, and people do generally accept it.

Which is simply not the case for either in the U.K.

E.g. there has been virtually zero enforcement of mask wearing, even at the height of the first lockdown, when nobody was yet vaccinated.
If any GNers saw anything in the way of enforcement, I’d be interested to hear it.
If challenged (highly unlikely anyway) anyone can say they’re exempt.

I saw first hand how covid impacted on cancer patients, DH fell off the radar for some months because he could not be seen in a hospital and could not have end of life care in a hospice because they had covid patients and was closed to other patients.
Yes I would bill the anti-vaxxers for treatment or insist that they take out insurance as those who do extreme sports do.
Quoting cradle to grave is not appropriate now. In 1948 when the NHS was established life expectancy was shorter, there was no IVF, transplants or cosmetic surgery paid for by the working population and babies under 28 weeks gestation were considered not viable.

I think there’s probably an element in most of us of wanting the selfish anti vaxxers to suffer in some way, for the way they are undoubtedly denying others much needed hospital treatment.

Is Singapore’s solution right though? Tempting though it sounds I’m not so sure.

Its not going to happen though is it. The NHS say they have not the administrative capability to process payments from people who come to the UK from other countries for treatment on the NHS.

Good post Doodledog.

Too hard I think. It is very unfair that hospital beds are now unavailable to many urgent cases here because they are full of anti vaxxers who have Covid. Perhaps they could have a lower level of cover, just basic accomodation in mass wards for those unvaccinated by choice.

What about all the other patients in wards? Why should they be exposed to unvaccinated people with Covid. They'll lose out on staff time and attention as they have to barrier nurse Covid cases.

Galaxy

Or people who have rubbish diets or people who dont exercise or people who are workaholics etc.

Or the obese.

nanna8

Too hard I think. It is very unfair that hospital beds are now unavailable to many urgent cases here because they are full of anti vaxxers who have Covid. Perhaps they could have a lower level of cover, just basic accomodation in mass wards for those unvaccinated by choice.

In the UK, people in ICU don't have premium accommodation anyway.

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer to your question. I've never heard of a dental deep clean, so I'm assuming it's something that only private dentists do?
Our NHS dentist is still only doing emergency work. I haven't had a check-up for over 2 years, so phoned up last week to see what the situation was. The receptionist said she could make a check-up appointment for me, which she did. I just have to hope I don't have any problems before June 17th!

growstuff

nanna8

Too hard I think. It is very unfair that hospital beds are now unavailable to many urgent cases here because they are full of anti vaxxers who have Covid. Perhaps they could have a lower level of cover, just basic accomodation in mass wards for those unvaccinated by choice.

In the UK, people in ICU don't have premium accommodation anyway.

I'm not sure how premium accommodation in ICU is defined.
When DH was in (not Covid) he had his own room with ensuite.

sodapop

Its not going to happen though is it. The NHS say they have not the administrative capability to process payments from people who come to the UK from other countries for treatment on the NHS.

are you sure about this.
i thought most hospitals had an overseas dept that bills patients not entitled to nhs treatment, and they do pursue the matters.

In practice the billing of overseas residents by the NHS is an admin nightmare. Most come in as emergencies so are treated and often discharged before it is realised that they aren’t UK citizens. There isn’t a department of people at hospital level dealing with it, it’s part of the (remote) Finance Department function. To prove one way or another if somebody is a UK citizen is also fraught with issues and delays. One of the most common is a woman turning up in Labour, in and out 6 hours after giving birth.

Calistemon

growstuff

nanna8

Too hard I think. It is very unfair that hospital beds are now unavailable to many urgent cases here because they are full of anti vaxxers who have Covid. Perhaps they could have a lower level of cover, just basic accomodation in mass wards for those unvaccinated by choice.

In the UK, people in ICU don't have premium accommodation anyway.

I'm not sure how premium accommodation in ICU is defined.
When DH was in (not Covid) he had his own room with ensuite.

I had my own room with en suite when I was kept in after a heart scare, but that was because there weren't any other beds and I was lucky.

I was wondering what nanna8 meant by "just basic accommodation in mass wards" - that's what most people in the UK get.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

There are people in this country that scare me more than the virus.

Alegrias1

There are people in this country that scare me more than the virus.

Me too Alegrias1. But it isn't those that choose not to be vaccinated.

We're in agreement there "GrannyRose15*.