Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

It was because feminism was largely deemed to only benefit 'white, middle class, western women' that the movement changed into intersectional feminism. The movement prior to that was deemed not to represent women of colour, women who weren't from western countries, women who had varying gender representations.
I am not sure that these 'waves' of feminism are movements so much as descriptions of dominant trends in thinking. Unless people are prepared to simply abandon their own point of view (on the sayso of whom?) and move to the next 'thing', there really can't be such changes of 'movement'. Only the intellectually challenged would be likely to bow to them in any case. I think they are helpful jargon words for people writing essays or discussing the topic in a professional setting, but no more.

Anyway, trans issues aside, I am not sure that Intersectional Feminism can be followed in any realistic sense of the term. If everything we did and thought had to be run through a filter to remove any disadvantage to any disadvantaged person or group, no progress would ever be made, and people's thought processes would be incredibly garbled.

Off the top of my head:
Do I employ a cleaner? Yes, because it would pay wages to an unskilled (or just unfortunate) member of society, Or - No, as you would have to pay her less than you earn in order to afford it, and that would be exploitative. You do earn, don't you? If not, you realise that not paying tax is sponging off the backs of those who do?

Should I try to find a refugee to give her a break? Yes, as refugees are disadvantaged, and it is important for feminists to support disadvantaged women. Or - No, of course not! We feminists should be fighting to help refugees work that is equivalent to the jobs they did in their home countries, not exploit their situation by pigeonholing them and giving women domestic chores!

Well, should I hire a man, then? Yes, great idea. Break down the gender stereotypes that suggest that men and women behave in particular ways. Or - No! Positively discriminating in favour of men is perpetuating the disadvantage of women ?. Haven't women got enough to put up with?

God, I can't win! What about a transwoman? I might be able to find one from a working class background who is a person of colour and is neurodivergent. Oh, and bisexual, if I'm lucky. They get a bad press, I believe. Will that suit? Typical! Virtue signalling a go-go! There are some perfectly good female cleaners whose mothers and grandmothers cleaned before them. Middle class women are always disrupting the patterns of working class traditions. Or - If you use the Shiny Home Agency* you will be drummed out of the Feminism Book Club! They take a 30% cut, and perpetuate the bourgeoise values of a capitalist society. And! Why not clean your own house, anyway? I've had to do that since my cleaner left three months ago ?. It hasn't done me any harm. In an equal society we would all scrub our own loos.

*other fictitious agency titles are probably available.

Lack of intersectional feminism is why these issues are cropping up in the first place, we have to consider all demographics equally to proceed, women being one of those

Women are now just one aspect of feminism?

Under His Eye.

Well yes, because that is what feminism is, equality for all.

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds women and men are equal - feminism as defined for many years.

Who decided that feminism is no longer about women? Not any of these bodies:

The Fawcett Society
At its core, feminism is the belief in full social, economic, and political equality for women. Feminism largely arose in response to Western traditions that restricted the rights of women, but feminist thought has global manifestations and variations.

Wikipedia (I know)
Feminism is a range of social movements and ideologies that aim to define and establish the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes. Feminism incorporates the position that societies prioritize the male point of view, and that women are treated unjustly within those societies.
feminism, the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes.

Britannica
Although largely originating in the West, feminism is manifested worldwide and is represented by various institutions committed to activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.

Oxford Dictionary
the belief and aim that women should have the same rights and opportunities as men; the struggle to achieve this aim

I could go on.

Iam64

The advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds women and men are equal - feminism as defined for many years.

Thank you!

People find centring women very difficult, it is hard.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202112/medium-686177-82f07ed4-ab29-4765-a29d-15d2709adb08.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202112/medium-403359-506fae4c-ab75-4e45-8e1c-45bb78ac0709.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202112/medium-37144-30d2fefd-5d0b-417a-aa69-4fca395edd52.png

GagaJo if you post those words in the middle of a thread, not knowing anything about the people who will read them it’s an assumption and smart Alec cracks about ‘own goal’ apply only to you.
Your feminism, which doesn’t support the rights and needs of women of whatever colour, race, religion, age etc. when they are faced with challenges to their rights, needs and safety by men or TW evidently has to have a different title, in this case, intersectional. In the same way as Feminism is, your version may be supported by any class of people and will certainly be a hit with men, some posters on here and those few TW who want to deny natal women rights even to the word ‘woman’.

I’m just happy that out of this thread threads, I learnt from you that:
1. it should be made a point of law that if someone commits a sexual crime which uses male genitalia they will be liable for male prison
2. That you believe there are such things as pretend-trans though you didn’t elaborate on what those are.
3. That real transwomen wouldn’t commit those (sexual crimes using male genitalia) crimes.
4. You implied that potential TW would commit such crimes and live with a prison record in order to jump the gender reassignment queue, though I can’t find any evidence you posted to support that.
Statements like that from such an ardent poster as yourself explaining the beliefs of intersectional feminists are almost convincing.

All lives matter.

We have to have equality in feminism for everyone or who would we be equal too?

Indeed we must fight to make men more equal.
Same as those fighting for gay rights need to ensure equality for straight people.

If you don't know the difference between white feminism vs. intersectional feminism then you're probably a white feminist.

—^ Kenia (@Keniaacc) January 17, 201^
As an example of how intersectional feminism works a mainly white feminist group might focus on the glass ceiling and corporate achievement. A more diverse group might ask for an improvement in the basic wage because more women of colour work in low grade jobs.

VioletSky

We have to have equality in feminism for everyone or who would we be equal too?

Explain your equality to me in a circumstance where a woman needs a place safe from males, or from GagaJo’s pretend or real transwomen when the latter claim the right to be in those women’s safe spaces.

Explain your equality to me in a situation where a female has trained assiduously to compete against other females and stands a good chance of a medal and a male identifying as a woman wants to compete in that race because it gives him a better chance of winning a medal than if he competes with males.

Yes I would agree with that in a way trisher, I think true feminists focus on Male violence because that impacts all women whereas the glass ceiling only impacts middle class women. It's why refuges and prisons etc are the priority for gender critical feminists. A bit similar to the sex work is work mantra only said by those who have the luxury to avoid it.

I don't care if they are trans male female or non binary. This disgusting person or excuse for a human being has violated an animal. That is absolute cruelty purely for their own gratification.
They should get 10 years in prison followed by chemical castration imo. Also a lifetime ban on keeping or working with animals. Disgusting.

I already have multiple times Mollygo

VioletSky

I already have multiple times Mollygo

No you haven’t.

Have too

trisher

^If you don't know the difference between white feminism vs. intersectional feminism then you're probably a white feminist.^

—^ Kenia (@Keniaacc) January 17, 201^
As an example of how intersectional feminism works a mainly white feminist group might focus on the glass ceiling and corporate achievement. A more diverse group might ask for an improvement in the basic wage because more women of colour work in low grade jobs.

But it has always been the case that feminists have fought for or supported the rights of other women, whether their circumstances are similar or not. Eg FGM, or parity of pay for cleaners with janitors in Glasgow. The common denominator is that it is women's rights that are fought for.

Feminists may also support the cause of groups of men, but that wouldn't be feminism. Support for the miners in the 80s was largely support for men, but plenty of feminists were part of the support groups. Similarly, those who volunteer for things like helping with adult literacy or who knit hats for the homeless may well be feminist, but what they are doing is not feminism.

If it were, then the other aspects of a woman's life would have no meaning. Feminists couldn't do things because of their socialism, or Muslim belief, or veganism - it would all come under feminism.

Galaxy

Yes I would agree with that in a way trisher, I think true feminists focus on Male violence because that impacts all women whereas the glass ceiling only impacts middle class women. It's why refuges and prisons etc are the priority for gender critical feminists. A bit similar to the sex work is work mantra only said by those who have the luxury to avoid it.

I think you will find that those describing themselves as gender critical feminist are in the majority white middle class women. It's wrong to say that prisons aren't a priority for intersectional feminists they simply view them as a wider problem than the trans issue. This is interesting although uncomfortable reading for some. www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/05/22/white-feminism-karen-alison-phipps-me-too-sex-work-trans-rights-middle-class/

I'm not sure that people describe themselves as GCF. It's better and more accurate than TERF; but it's not how I define myself at all. Yes, I criticise the idea that gender is innate, and don't understand how someone can 'live as' or 'present as' a woman unless we agree that women live in or present as stereotypical things, and I don't accept that.

To me that's just garden variety feminism though. It only needs to be broken down when someone who does believe in set patterns of behaviour for the sexes tells me that I am not a feminist that I resort to the GCF label.

I am not a big fan of labels that someone else has decided on, though. I prefer to define myself, and feel uncomfortable with other people putting me into their boxes.

That article is absolute nonsense of course trisher. It has the depth of a puddle. The tired trope of it being a right wing movement when it's full of left wing women, the nonsense about lesbians when many of the most prominent gender critical feminists are lesbians, and as we have been through before that pretty much every legal case on this issue has been led by a woman of colour. It is the same publication that said some pretty horrific things about gender critical lesbians, they settled the complaint about that issue out of court.

The publication is just reviewing a book by a woman who is an acknowledged expert in the field Galaxy. Are you saying right wing organisations and govenments don't oppose trans and gay rights? Yes there are socialist gender critical feminists and the question of why they would ally themselves with such thinking is interesting.Perhaps this review will suit you better blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2020/11/15/book-review-me-not-you-the-trouble-with-mainstream-feminism-by-alison-phipps/