Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

Your patience and stoicism is admirable Doodledog but I think you're being led up a garden path.

You may well be right, Chewbacca . It's not always easy to tell the disingenuous posts from the others on these threads.

OK doodledog

GagaJo

*your intersectional point only works in your head*

No. That IS the definition of intersectional feminism. You may not agree with it and you may not be an intersectional feminist, but there is a whole movement that agree with it. I appreciate there are still other types of feminism around, but they are the reason intersectional feminism was created. To have a feminist movement that wasn't a 'just us' system that really only benefitted white, middle class, western women.

So by your reckoning, intersectional feminists are not discriminatory ( except where it relates to natal women’s rights).
Lots of people already go with your idea that if something doesn’t suit your point of view or work for you, you just create something that does.
And be careful about your white middle class western women comment. Your assumptions are showing again.

Doodledog

Ok, VS, so are you saying that you think that those of us who feel that male-bodied people should not be in spaces where women don't want them? If I have missed you say that, I apologise.

Sorry can you explain what "male bodied people" are exactly please? I assumed you meant transwomen who had nothad surgery- but obviously not.

I still don't understand, am I saying that those who feel male bodied people should not be in spaces where women don't want them... What?

I think people feel how they feel and I would like them to feel safe but apart form that I *still don't understand the question.

If anyone feels that is deliberate that's not my intention.

If I am rude for not reading comments that make assumptions about me then I'm OK with that because I think making assumption I worse

Put him in the male prison, amongst animal lovers!!!

Male bodied people are people with male bodies, I’d have thought that was clear enough.
Whilst I still think any natal men have no place in women’s prisons, at least if their male bodies are missing the dangly bit, at they couldn’t rape, (legal definition of act) whilst they’re there.
Sorry for butting in Doodledog but I was fascinated that trisher doesn’t understand make-bodied.

Sorry - indirectly I suppose it comes to the same thing - I meant people with penises. I wasn't really thinking in terms of surgery, but it's true that I would make an exception for medically transitioned people when it comes to safe spaces. I wouldn't for sport.

IMO, if someone wants to be accepted as a member of the opposite sex (which does not mean that I think that they are) then they should be willing to compromise. I would be ok with sharing a hospital ward, for instance, with a transitioned transwoman, but would be very uncomfortable with having what amounts to a bloke in a nightie in the next bed. Others would feel differently.

I think that transpeople should choose career paths that take women's sensitivities into account, and that if doing so is the price of acceptance then it's not too high a price to pay. I honestly think that when Mridul Madhwa applied for the role of CEO of the Edinburgh Rape Centre, for instance, it was a deliberate decision to antagonise people and publicise the trans cause. Someone with a background in counselling could have found many other areas to work in that would be more appropriate than that.

I've already repeated myself, upthread, VS. If you'd bothered to read the post in the first place you wouldn't be playing catch-up though.

Thanks, Mollygo.

For the avoidance of doubt if the naked body is like the one on the right of the image it is male bodied. The one on the left is female bodied. Hope that helps.

doodledog

I'm sorry I missed that but I was doing housework and building lego with my littlest and must have missed it.

I have to ask though, do not all my replies state that I understand women's fears? Do not all my replies look for compromise and solutions to that that keep women safe but don't leave trans people with no where to go thus losing basic human rights in the process?

If you are asking of I think it's wrong to say trans women are not women, I think saying anything that will hurt someone else's feelings is wrong If there is a way around it which sometimes there isn't.

This is the danger behind those assumptions I mentioned. If I don't agree with your view then I must hold the views you or others assign to me.

I don't put up with that, no one should.

I'll happily read any comment you would like as long as it's not making assumptions about me and it doesn't contain assertions that I am rude or stroppy for simply standing up for myself.

Well, the idea that I think that you were rude or stroppy for standing up for yourself is an assumption, or a misunderstanding, or a misreading - whatever you like.

I think that refusing to read a post that is in direct response to one of your own is rude (you may disagree, but it is customary in that case to explain why), and I think that announcing that refusal with a 'Goodnight' is stroppy. Nothing to do with standing up for yourself - ironically, replying would give you the chance to do just that.

The last few pages have not given me the impression that you are looking for common ground or compromise. That is not an assumption, btw, it is an expression of my feelings.

doodledog, well I've explained now but sometimes it's just better to step away than have an argument, especially at 2am.

I think it just is who I am, I have 5 very different children from adults to teens to a little one age 7 and one has autism so I am just used to treating people the way they need and the way that makes them feel safe and comfortable engaging.

Granted mistakes get made at first

But I'm not being rude or stroppy or disengenuous or leading people up or down any gardens. I'm just being honest.

That is why I generally leave these threads

Funny isn't it I ask what Doodledog means as 'male-bodied" because she has posted that she didn't link that with surgery and I meet with a section of disparaging posts. I still don't understand how unless there is to be some physical inspection women only spaces would be regulated .

Chewbacca

Your patience and stoicism is admirable Doodledog but I think you're being led up a garden path.

I am quite good at training dogs but there have been plenty of suggestions wrt cutting people knackers off etc on this thread

trisher discussion has to be honest doesn't it, otherwise it is useless and isn't given attention and views aren't actually heard because people are reacting rather than engaging

‘I think it just who I am. I have 5 different children from adults to teens to a little one aged 7 and one has autism so I am just used to treating people the way they need and the way that makes them feel safe and comfortable engaging. … I’m not being rude or stroppy or disingenuous or leading people up or down any gardens. I’m just being honest. That is why I generally leave these threads”

Am I missing something.

VioletSky

trisher discussion has to be honest doesn't it, otherwise it is useless and isn't given attention and views aren't actually heard because people are reacting rather than engaging

I agree with your words; but given your actions it's difficult to work out whether you are being deliberately ironic or just have absolutely no clue how to read a room .

It's one thing to think that 2.00am is too late to reply (I am a dreadful insomniac but understand that most people are asleep at that time), but can't you see that announcing that you aren't going to read a post is the ultimate in reacting rather than engaging?

I'm not sure why your comment about being honest is addressed only to trisher. I'm in no way suggesting that she is not given her honest opinion about all of this, but are you making the assumption that the rest of us are not?

Mollygo

GagaJo

your intersectional point only works in your head

No. That IS the definition of intersectional feminism. You may not agree with it and you may not be an intersectional feminist, but there is a whole movement that agree with it. I appreciate there are still other types of feminism around, but they are the reason intersectional feminism was created. To have a feminist movement that wasn't a 'just us' system that really only benefitted white, middle class, western women.

So by your reckoning, intersectional feminists are not discriminatory ( except where it relates to natal women’s rights).
Lots of people already go with your idea that if something doesn’t suit your point of view or work for you, you just create something that does.
And be careful about your white middle class western women comment. Your assumptions are showing again.

It was because feminism was largely deemed to only benefit 'white, middle class, western women' that the movement changed into intersectional feminism. The movement prior to that was deemed not to represent women of colour, women who weren't from western countries, women who had varying gender representations.

Certainly not MY assumption. An assumption by the majority of the feminist movement which decided it was time for change.

Your assumption that those words were only mine shows how little you know about this political development. Own goal.

doodledog

You made an assumption about me after I'd just explained why I didn't like it several times.

OK, your comment was long so perhaps you missed that while typing.

Logically if you are going to make an assumption then the rest of the comment is going to follow on from it so there is no point my reading it because its not relevant.

You are dermined to keep whatever this is between us going when you could just accept what I've said and move on.

You are dermined to keep whatever this is between us going when you could just accept what I've said and move on.
Pot, meet kettle ?

Passive aggression isn’t a positive thing